Adult Entertainer Dies in Crash — Robert Price of http://www.foxsanantonio.com
An adult entertainer living in San Antonio dies in a weekend crash.
Friends say the body that made her money may be to blame for her death. That crash happened Saturday night in Real County along US-83 near Leakey.
56-year-old Cynthia ****** was spending the weekend in Utopia with her horse "Fire".
A state trooper says she wasn’t wearing her seatbelt. Her roommate John Lopez says Cynthia had problems with seatbelts because of her very large breasts — size 65NN. He claims, as an adult entertainer, she had the third-largest breasts in the U.S.
And that made driving a challenge. She’d only wear a lap-belt. John says she was afraid of the shoulder strap.Cynthia performed in more than twenty adult films under the stage name "Echo Valley".
But in 2008, she crossed over to the mainstream with a cameo in the Hollywood film "Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay."
Cynthia’s birthday would have been this Sunday, May 29th.
Echo was the first b/g scene I did when the Porn Star For Rent documentary guy first started following me around on and off sets back in February, 2005. I remember Sandy Bunz was screaming too. The unusual, pornstar jackass-style was already running at full speed from the very beginning. Little did anyone know that a master/disaster-piece was in the works. Tragic it still hasn’t even have a promo clip yet which was talked about years and years and more years ago. I’m sorry Brandon Iron, Hillary Scott, Sunny Lane, Julia Bond, Jim Powers and all the many, many, many people who participated in it. If any investors out there have some extra cash and want to check out clips of some of the highlights I’m convinced you’d see the mega-value this hilarious work is potentially worth. The problem is reducing the 100+ hours of raw footage into a mere 2 hours or 90 minutes. Something needs to be done at this fucking point because the non-producing producer is too busy surfing around craigslist ads, PWL, eating, dreaming and other variants of fucking around, instead of actually doing anything! I know the investors are not too happy either, I being one of them.
Echo Valley was a great feature entertainer and an even greater person, the world is a duller place without her in it. I saw her many times at the ED Convention and she was always positive and her joy shone through in her performance, she will be sorely missed, one of the nicest women I ever met, RIP my friend, there is one less star in the sky tonight and one more star in heaven.
WTF PeeWee, does everything relate back to you and a lame documentary? It was your chance to be a notorious mope like Steve Driver. It didn’t pan out. Let go.
PS: Cindi- great job spiking my comments to protect Spiegler from esponding to the recent indisputable bombshell revelations about involvement with Nazi porn.
WOW I never would have guessed she was almost 60. I thought she was around 45 years old. God bless her and take care of her.
Holy shit! That chick’s 56!?! That’s gotta be a dated photo then… Right?
How would you know how lame it is, Jew hater? Yours is the last person’s advice I’ll be taking.
I can’t believe it. She was one of the most dependable people on the circuit. I just can’t imagine her not being there.
I will miss her.
I would have pegged her for 45. Sad, please Shelley dont add her to your death list. So our Rebbe Schneerson is a anti-semitic Jew.
You’re calling moi a Jew hater?? Spiegler booked Jewish Dana Dearmond to film Auschwitz porn in Europe with Siffredi and then put her in the Nice Jewsish Girls DVD which mocked Jewish culture. He is a self hating Jew like Georgr Soros, who collaborated with Nazis and hates Israel.
By the way, you seem aweful sensitive. Are you Jewish as your wiki says? Seems like you could be since you’re short, leftist and invoved with smut peddling. None of those things are coincidence
Ya Shelley is probably sitting down right now (with her Christian Mafia) trying to brainstorm how she can blame the poor girl’s death on porn and snag a few more donations.
RIP, she was genuinely sweet.
To answer your question, Menachem Bacon, I don’t catogorize myself as Jew or Christian. If I had to choose, I’d choose Buddhist. I also have 76 books by or about the Rajneesh. I’m a collector, you can say, not a mad disciple or anything. Found his stuff interesting and entertaining as it changed through the years leading up to his demise. My dad’s dad was a full Jew, by birth, not by religious declaration. I was raised Catholic, had first communion, Catechism briefly, we celebrate Christmas and I was envious of the spoiled Jewish kids in Syosset and Woodbury getting set up for life at age 13 through people they never met. At age 14 my relatives made up for it and all chipped in for a beautiful Aria Pro2 hollow body electric guitar with removable neck (very underrated) and big ass amp for my 9/11 birthday.
categorize, whoops
What religion you practise has nothing to do with it. It’s an ethnicity like Irish or Italian. Most Jews aren’t traditionally religious. Their religion is pc socialistic secularism.
Your father is a Jew, then you’re a Jew and you obviously inheritited the Jewish “we’re outsiders-so we have to agitate” mentality. Sounds like you might be self-hating like Spiegler and Soros because you try to evade by saying “I don’t categorize” myself that way.
How do you feel about the Jew Spiegler participating in Rocco Siffredi’s Auschwitz fetish porn by supplying talent? He even sent an authentic Jewish female
Her airbags must not have deployed.
I remember I hung out with her a little while at AVN and we took a pic together. I laid my head on her boobs to be funny. She laughed. She was a real sweet lady.
You will be missed Echo.
Extremely sad to hear about this.
May she rest in peace.
Shelly, how’s the performer formerly called Michelle Avanti doing? Is she still under your care?
Good on ya Origen…
Any opporunity to lambast Ms. Lubben’s organization and by proxy, Ms. Lubben herself, of the GREAT many flaws speaks directly to the poignant truth…
I had the luxury of viewing ‘All Internal 16’ last night and celebrated Michelle’s triumphant return to the adult industry…
To the main topic, thrown from the car of a rear-ending… That must have (sadly) been one hell of a collision.
@slubben — I’ve been promoting the taping of your upcoming appearance on TBN like crazy — getting as many audience seats as possible filled with people who know what you’re REALLY all about. Here’s the info in case anyone wants to come out to Costa Mesa: http://tbn.2nspire.com/email/web/Day.cfm?D=4
Here’s what Shelley just posted on her Facebook wall:
“Another porn star died in a freak car accident upon entering a bar. Does anybody see how destructive this industry is? Please pray for Echo Valley’s family. Pray for all the women and men still trapped inside the porn industry.”
If it was an “accident”, Mrs. Lubben, why is the porn industry at fault?
@Michael Whiteacre
All I can say is wow… How in the world any reasonable person could associate a car wreck to the ‘destructiveness’ of the adult industry is well beyond my capability of understanding…
I suppose I’ve said it myself… ‘Reasonable person’. Something we’re very far off from dealing with here…
As a friend of mine one wrote, “If there’s one thing we should have learned over the past eight years, it’s that really, really foolish ideas have a durable appeal to a lot of people who stand ready to be fooled. That’s why even foolishness like this sorry attempt must be treated seriously rather than simply laughed off. The potential collateral effects are far from funny.”
And, once again, that link to info on how to attend Mrs. Lubben’s June 9th TBN taping: http://tbn.2nspire.com/email/web/Day.cfm?D=4
Ahh… How I would love to attend such a meeting presented by the religious zealots! Unfortunately I will be travelling for work the entire month of June. I hope a great many of the ‘free-minded’ attend and do not let the debate be controlled by the religio-sociopathic!
Who’s praying for Michelle Avanti?
Speaking of psychopathology, eminent psychologist Robert Hare is the inventor of the PCL-R psychopath checklist.
The first factor of the psychopath checklist is personality (“Aggressive Narcissism”):
▪ Glibness / superficial charm
▪ Grandiose sense of self-worth
▪ Pathological lying
▪ Cunning / manipulative
▪ Lack of remorse or guilt
▪ Shallow affect / false emotion (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric)
▪ Callous/lack of empathy
▪ Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
Sound like anyone we know?
I’m praying for Ms. Avanti’s successful re-endeavor back into the adult film industry. I pray she reaches the height of stardom that so eluded Ms. Lubben. I pray she realizes error of her ways in following the false prophet and leaving the industry in the first place…
I wish Shelly would answer my questions about Michelle Avanti. I really just hope I am wrong and she’s not back in porn.
Honestly, Volatire, if Michelle’s back in porn it would reinforce my sickening beliefs about religion…
@Michael Whiteacre
If the list only included “Claims contact with the supernatural”, I think we would have a perfect match!
Michelle / Madelyn / Maddy used to post here on LIB, and indicated that she had indeed left Pink Cross.
@origen – Water fill find its own level.
@Origen
Unfortuanetly, I don’t think my beliefs could be much more ‘sickening’…
@Voltaire – The checklist also includes (in another factor called Case History)
▪ Poor behavioral control
▪ Impulsivity
▪ Irresponsibility
▪ Juvenile delinquency
▪ Early behavior problems
Ha! Sounds like Ms. Lubben’s curriculum vitae!
@Michael Whiteacre
Was Robert Hare studying Ms. Lubben when he devoloped this checklist?
Mrs. Lubben also claims she’s been anemic for many years.
Symptoms of B-12 deficiency anemia can include:
• A tingling sensation in the hands or feet
• A wobbly gait or difficulty walking
• Dementia
• Hallucinations, paranoia, and schizophrenia
A slight deficiency of vitamin B-12 can lead to fatigue, mania, and depression, while a long-term deficiency can potentially cause permanent damage to the brain and central nervous system.
Ah-hah! So you’ve found a solution Michael!
Ms. Lubben please add a B-12 vitamin to your morning array of psychotropic medications and this whole Pink Cross mess can be cleared up…
@Voltaire – The problem is, Shelley apparently does not take her meds anymore — because G-d told her he cured her.
Just like those thousands of homeless people who also refuse to take their meds because G-d told them they don’t have to.
This is such BULLSHIT! So with all the money Pink Cross is getting they only managed to help 4 girls (max) get out of porn!?
Where are the priorities? I have given money to Pink Cross in the past but I don’t think I’ll give another cent.
Children of the Night, SAGE Project, and Beauty from Ashes seem more worthy of the money…
Fine, maybe more than four, but less than a dozen…
@Michael Whiteacre
Well as long as God told them to forgo modern medicine, everything’s okay then, right? (sarcasm)
@Origen
I personally have zero problem with groups who seek to help people who feel emotionally disturbed, regardless of the industry… My problem with Pink Cross is they actively seek to target people who are NOT emotionally disturbed, by seeking to shut down the entire industry.
The proceeds for the Pink Cross go to Ms. Lubben, period… She takes something like 49% in personal income and the rest is spent on her galavanting around the world…
@origen – Look at Pink Cross’ posted tax returns. In 2009, Pink Cross paid Lubben approx 39.5% of all cash contributions as her salary + fringes. That does not include her travel, hotels, meals and incidentals. She also doesn’t pay for rooms or airfare for ex-performers that fly out to work her booth at AEE (all they get is a badge for the show floor). She takes mysterious deductions for her office, when her office is actually a cubbyhole at her house in Bakersfield.
Where does the money go?
Last time I checked, she STILL had not posted the group’s 2010 returns, but at Cambridge she indicated that she had given herself a raise of roughly 50%! Based on what performance? On what success rate?
Its almost as if she’s being disingenuous about her organization’s mission. Its clear her organizational focus is not on ministering and helping INDIVIDUAL porn stars GET OUT OF PORN but on lobbying regulatory bodies such as Cal-Osha….
As seems to be the motto of the US Government of late, ‘It’s easy to spend that kind of money, especially when it’s someone else’s…’
This is NOT RIGHT. And I’m not saying it because I am partial to porn. I’m saying it from an objective viewpoint. From the point of view of a performer trying to leave the Industry, I don’t know about Pink Cross…
You are right Origen, it’s not right… You’ll constanly hear Ms. Lubben compare her salary to the $365,000 the head of AHF makes (which is far to high in my opinion), but she fails to grasp its not the total amount that’s at issue, it’s the large percentages of the proceeds divied to her that are the problem…
@origen – Almost as if she’s being disingenuous? LOL She is not qualified to counsel anyone. Her degree is from an online university which is considered a diploma mill in some states. She’s a pastor of a make-believe religious order, and her only qualifications to be made a pastor were filling out some paperwork, getting a letter from her local Body of Christ, and having people lay hands on her and pray. Voila! You’re a pastor!
She has to be ambiguous — there are limits on how much “lobbying” a 501(c)(3) can do. Pink Cross tax returns also claim that they have engaged in NO lobbying, which is hilarious.
I thought “Citizens United v FEC” allows a non-profit an unlimited amount of lobbying so long is its not the organization’s SOLE function? Forgive my ignorance, I’m not a lawyer.
@Origen
Even if that is the case, the organization still claims to do NO lobbying, which is repugnant in it’s own right…
origen — Even if the ruling did hold that, it’s a January 2010 ruling. Lubben’s been at it for years.
You can read about the rules and limitations here:
http://www.asaecenter.org/Resources/whitepaperdetail.cfm?ItemNumber=12212
…but aren’t SCOTUS rulings retroactive? Again, forgive my ignorance…
origen – That ruling struck down a portion of the McCain Feingold Act that prohibited all corporations, both for-profit and not-for-profit (and unions) from broadcasting “electioneering communications.” I’m not talking about McCain Feingold violations — I’m talking about other, mostly IRS-related potential violations.
My specialty was never tax law or election/campaign finance regulation, but I do see some potential problems with the way Pink Cross operates in regard to lobbying efforts.
I admit it. Michelle has gone back to film. Check her out at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuYP8uBi-2g
Love you!
Yes!!! You ALL are invited to TBN to sit in the audience and get filled with the Holy Ghost!!
Just ask my favorite obsessed fan Michael for directions. (wink)
Me lobby? Come on I educate. Not to mention Pink Cross did elect their 5768. Do your homework people!
Again, love you so much!
Fan is short for fanatic, Shelley. I’ll leave that sobriquet to you, as it suits so well.
And guys, the YouTube link Shelley provided is to the trailer for her unbelievably disingenuous self-produced documentary. It features her reciting the usual lies and unproven or disproven claims about how porn did this and that to her. She includes the miscarriages that happened YEARS before she entered the porn industry, etc…
Of her husband, who was a meth dealer and user (who lived with his parents) that she met at a bar, who offered to hire her for a bachelor party — and who she admits she only hung around because he had meth — she says, “He was a Christian man. I felt the love of Jesus Christ from him and he rescued me when I couldn’t help myself.” I laughed out loud at that part.
In short, the same bullshit from the same bullshitter.
And Shelley — so now she’s Michelle again, not your beloved Maddy?
@slubben You educate? You also come out in support of specific legislation and regulations. Whether or not you filed that form, you lie about your activities on your taxes. Oh –excuse me — you have your husband Gary lie about it on your taxes. He’s the fall guy who signs the returns.
Father, bless all of the people above with your Holy Spirit and heal their minds, souls and hearts and give them passion to live for YOU. Bless them with every heavenly blessing in the mighty and precious name of your Son, Jesus!
Be made whole. Be healed. Live the life you were meant to live. YOU ARE WORTH IT!
@slubben — Why post that here? Isn’t Yaweh in the room with you right now? Why don’t you just lean over and tell him?
And by the way, babe, my heart and soul do not need to be healed — I’m not the hypocrite, the one living a lie here; YOU are.
@origen — How did you like Shelley’s loving, caring words of concern about Michelle Avanti? “I admit it” followed by a plug for her latest propaganda piece.
There’s your heart of gold for you. There’s your silicon savior.
LOL @Michael Whiteacre
I have no problem with people that have faith or believe in a deity(I’m agnostic). It is when that deity starts talking back is when they need to seek professional help.
Alas, the (false) Prophet speaks! Giving us all the blessings of her God in a vielled attempt to subjugate her own guilt of a long flawed life…
Whitacre, why did you and Joanne make a big deal about Shelley’s fake bachelor degree in your amateurish clips while at the same time being deferential to Sharon Mitchell’s expertise? Lubben and Mitchell both have a high school level education, but “Dr” Mitchell wore a white coat for a over a decade. Ever check into AIM’s taxes? What about FSC? FSC started a new tax exempt shell organization 6 months ago “FSA” which will have a separete tax filing. Smells rotten. Do you think the porn companies that fund and control FSC ever really purged themselves of mafia ties?
Shelley Lubben: Monica Foster has become certifiably insane and is a genuine casualty of the porn industry. Here is an opportunity for you to step up and earn some respect. Get Foster a plane ticket back to where she comes from. Convince her to stay off the internet and to see a shrink for medication.
If Shelley was around 100-150 years old she would be standing on the street corner trying to sell bottles of snake oil claiming they cured everything that ails you.
@Menachem — I never even MENTION Mitch OR AIM Healthcare (or FSC for that matter) in the documentary thus far (or in the advance trailers). Nor have any of my videos yet addressed the subject of Lubben’s degree. You’re talking out of your ass, as usual.
No, I’ve never checked into AIM’s taxes — I’m not doing a documentary on AIM.
No, I’ve never checked into FSC’s taxes — I’m not doing a documentary on FSC.
Filing paperwork to create a corporation smells rotten? What planet are you from?
Mafia ties? This is 2011, not 1973. Wake up.
Still waiting for that imaginary ‘comprehensive idepenent analysis’ Michael.
I will put money on the rapture happening before we ever see this ‘analysis.’ Or hell freezing over.
And calling your youtube videos a documentary is like calling Backdoor Sluts 9 an art film.
Shelly, don’t you think you need to re-evaluate your ministry practices? Why do so many of the the performers you “rescue” either return to porn or leave and condemn you?
That’s funny. Your partner Joanne Cachapero has a lot to say about Lubben’s so-called bachelor degree right here:
http://fscblogger.wordpress.com/2010/11/18/ignorance-is-the-disease-thoughts-on-the-ucla-condoms-in-the-adult-industry-panel/
Both your name and Cachapero’s are also all over Julie Meadows’ blog where she discusses Lubben’s degree. Odd that Lubben’s fake Christian bachelor degree is more noteworthy that Mitchell’s fake bachelors, masters and doctorate. People in the industry were always free to ignore Lubben, but your pal Mitchell impacted them all. Your FSC buddies are on record all over the place touting Mitchell’s impressive doctorate credentials too. Your selective outrage at Lubben’s comparatively smaller education lie is very similar to your selective outrage at her much much smaller nonprofit abuses.
And the FSC’s controlling companies don’t have any remaining mob entanglements? That’s like saying your beloved ACLU doesn’t have any remaining marxist entanglements.
Have to make a note to self to celebrate Echo’s life and enjoy a scene or two of hers later on. Spiegler did book his girls on a few tainted porns, sadly the full on Concentration Camp slave theme has been going on for decades and some of the films were made by real film directors, any time I see James Deen wearing a prayer shawl I want to throw up, he wears it with a certain type of smugness. Rebbe, you know your Halakah? If Steele’s mom is a Jew then he is considered a Jew no matter what his dad’s background is, if his mom is not then he is not a Jew unless he converts to Judaism.
What if Mom’s a 1/2 Jew, Larry and doesn’t celebrate Judaisms? And what if it’s a repressed family secret? I bet everytime Mecockflem sneezes he goes… “Ahhh.. Jew!!”. After all, he’s apparently allergic to them.
@Menachem — MY beloved ACLU? — Oh, I see, because I’m Jewish I’m de facto part of some Marxist pinko conspiracy. Outside of free speech issues, you have no idea what my politics are, fuckstick.
The reason we all take that view of Lubben’s degree is simply because it’s TRUE — there’s no conspiracy, it’s just a fact. But what do the comments of third parties about Mitch’s or Lubben’s credentials have to do with me, anyway? They write what they think, I write what I think. No one has to compare notes to realize the FACT that Lubben’s degree is bogus.
You keep calling Joanne my partner — Lydia Lee (f.k.a. Julie Meadows) was my sole producing partner on “The Devil and Shelley Lubben.” I’ve known Lydia since 1998, and we work well together. The whole doc actually grew out of Lydia’s blog postings and research. The only project Joanne produced that I participated in (in fact, it’s also the only project she has produced) was the FSC anti-piracy PSAs that I directed (pro bono) over a year ago.
And for the last time, Mitch herself was not providing medical care — she was the administrator of a clinic. Mrs. Lubben, though utterly unqualified and un-credentialed, IS herself diagnosing and providing counseling to former adult performers.
So Mitch liked to wear a white coat — Judith Reisman, the former writer of songs for Kaptain Kangaroo and all-around nut-job, calls herself “Dr. Reisman” and she only has a degree in Communications!
You write, “People in the industry were always free to ignore Lubben.” Why would you ignore an enemy who is teaming up with your other enemies, and spreading lies in the media? How could that be a sound strategy? The better strategy is to USE her to the industry’s advantage.
In reality, Lubben has become an extraordinary ASSET to the adult industry — she’s so obviously bat shit crazy that it has become increasingly effective to just let her talk, and allow her to be seen as the spokesperson for the anti-porners. And all the while, in the background, the truth about Lubben seeps into the consciousness. You should have see the video of the Cambridge Union debate — the crowd LAUGHED OUT LOUD at her after she bellowed, “I have the evidence. Irrefutable evidence!”
With every public appearance she is further discredited, both by her own actions and mine. I call that turning a frown upside-down.
Jewish religious laws having nothing to do with what makes one a Jew. Most Jews don’t follow traditional religious rules anyway. Their natural religion tends to be pc socialistic secularism, because anything else makes them feel like insecure outsiders. This mentality was obviously passed on to neurotic Jeremy by his Jewish dad. It’s also no coincidence that he has a shortness gene and choose to work in smut. Whitacre presents a classic textbook example of a Jewish mentality. You don’t have to be Sigmund Freud to understand his anal fixation with the largely irrelevant Christian Lubben.
You don’t know me or my dad, Mecockflem, you fuckin’ racist babboon! My dad’s a philanthropist from the 60s, free-spirited, meditating good-karma self-made surfer dude, and every year we use to do the Christmas thing. My dad’s dad acquiesced to his wife and their Christian upbringing, so my Dad’s family never observed any Jewish holidays. Additionally, my dad completely rebelled against his dad in every way. My grandpa was a NY police chief. Go fuck yourself with some kosher sausage, you cunt!
“philanthropist from the 60s, free-spirited, meditating good-karma self-made surfer dude”
Yes, and this is exactly why his son grew up to have gay sex for money, sleep in a closet and believe insane conspiracy theories
PS: Everything you said about him sounds very Jewish. I know him, you and Whitacre better than you know yourselves (3 different variants) because I’m able to step back and observe patterns. If it makes you feel any better, Whitacre is the most predictable of the lot. He could have come from a cookie cutter.
Kosher sausage, you mean Ron Jeremy? A half jew mother who is a Catholic then the kid is a Catholic if rasied as such, but then the kid would be a 3/4ths Jew and thus a full Jew by the Nazi Mischling standard. If mom is not at all Jewish then the kid isnt Jewish, in the nazi world the kid is a first degree Mischling. Rebbe Schneerson didnt like Jews who werent Hasids. Ashkenazi Jews may be the only Jews close to a real “Racial” Jew, Sephardis are really more Latin than “Jewish”, most folks in Spain and Portugal probably have a lot more Jewish blood than Ferdinand & Isabella intended. Judith Reismann? Havent heard that name in years.
Shelley Lubben: Ignore Whitacre. As a leftist Jew, your mere existence makes him feel insecure and angry. He’s blinded by bigotry for anyone who don’t share his degenerate ACLU mindset. The question is what are you going to do for Foster? This one should be right up your wheelhouse. An opportunity for you to shine. Send her home to Florida and break her fucking computer for her own good.
While I’ll be the first to admit I know nothing of Ms. Mitchell’s medical qualifications, based on what I’ve read, it seems she did at least a decent job of surrounding herself with appropriately qualified persons. As I have stated before, at least no HIV/AIDS occurred while AIM was conducting testing, which I believe was the goal in the first place. To me, it would seem that Ms. Mitchell was more of a spokesperson, rather than providing medical expertise…
Chiropractics call themselves Doctors all the time but only scintilla go to Med/Grad School….
Awwwwwwwwwww:( RIP Girly
Sad about Echo Valley getting killed in a car accident but I am pretty sure it had absolutely nothing to do with the porn industry. I could be wrong though! I have to agree with what Menachem Schneerson said about Monica Foster. She has posted some more rants and insane things about me and my company that it is almost comical. According to her I am the leader of the ‘porn mafia’ and encourage my friends to rape porn starlets whenever they want. I also controlled the entire Charlie Sheen fiasco in order to facilitate Bree Olson and Kacey Jordan (who both appear in my movies) and benefit by selling more DVDs because of their relationship with Charlie. I am a pedophile and violate 2257 laws because I shot Not the Cosbys XXX even though the girl that played little cute Rudy was 25 at the time and I am also in need of desperate mental therapy because many of our movies feature young girls wearing…Drum roll please… super young girl clothing. Well, I have directed over 70 Barely Legal and the like teen style of movies so I guess I should be ashamed that I did not dress the girls in black robes and floor length church appropriate dresses complete with chastity belts. She is right- what was I thinking? Instead of Shelly Lubben helping the girls that this industry obviously preys upon I think Shelly needs to rescue me. You cannot make this stuff up (well yes you can apparently) and I am sure my post here will bring a flurry of new posts and fascinating video blogs from Monica Foster about what a horrible human being I am but if you haven’t read her words and rants they are quite entertaining. The truth is I wish both of those lovely ladies the best and I hope they both recover nicely from their conspiracy theory dementia. There has to be a movie in this somewhere I think.
Now on the Pink Cross website: “Porn Star Echo Valley Dies Due to Large Breasts”
I shit you not.
The story (run right below a “DONATE” button) also carries the line: “This is the second breast implant related death this year in the porn industry.”
IN THE PORN INDUSTRY? When was the last time Echo Valley made an adult movie? The last title I can find was from 2009, and it might be a comp.
Lubben’s piece also includes this gem: “The porn lifetstyle caught up with Cynthia like many women who are pressured by agents and pornographers into getting larger breasts. In fact, most women do their first scene and instead of get [sic] paid, the money goes towards breast implants.”
REALLY? MOST performers forgo their first check, or sign it over to agents or producers, as a downpayment for breast implants? MOST?
No, Shelley, strippers like Echo Valley get implants because the amount of tips is directly related to the size of their boobs. You ought to know — you got YOUR big boobs when you were a stripper, in order to make your bust correspond to the size of your big ass. Like you, Echo was a stripper LONG before she ever made any adult movies.
St. Shelley closes with: “Please also pray for men and women who struggle with porn addiction and continue to contribute to the deaths of these women.” Because, you know, her death had nothing to do with her driving, or the driving of the person whose vehicle hit hers. It’s the fault of people who buy or rent porn instead of sending that money to Shelley so she can pay for more botox, filler and limp plumper . . . because porn is not glamorous.
Unreal… The ‘large breast’ argument is to me, quite the stretch… I would assume Ms. Lubben must ‘pray’ that the same fate does not occur to her and her ‘silicone babies’.
I mean, this poor woman has not even been laid to rest yet, and already a charlatan who, if she’d had her way, would have put Echo out of work entirely, is exploiting her death for attention and donations. And SHE preaches to US about decency!
You know… I would have much less of a problem with Shelley if she would just admit that her only goal in life is shameless self-promotion…
@Will Ryder
While I am admittedly no ‘Industry Insider’ and I had never even heard of Monica Foster until I started coming to this site, the more I read, see, and hear about her, the more clearly I understand the potential for her to be put into situations like the apparent PWL situation (I honestly don’t know much about that either, I’ve never been to the site and I’ve only heard the rumblings on this message board).
If you asked me who I thought could possibly turn into the next Shelley Lubben, I would put Monica at the top of the list…
Btw, I think the only logical organization for pro-porn people to create in order to fight Shelley’s Holy Crusade, would be The Pink Vibrator! Maybe hold two together in the form of a cross to ward her off! And if you don’t have garlic use garlic breathe!
wow, I didn’t even post on this thread yet I’m being discussed. Maybe if you accepted God and Jesus Christ into your hearts and faced yourselves you wouldn’t be so fearful. I’m sane, I’m living my life the best I can and I’m enjoying telling the truth about where I’ve been. If you don’t like what I have to say or write – ignore me.
And leave Lubben alone – you’re like a pack of jackals which shows how weak many of you actually are. Interesting how you make fun of her faith the second I mention the O.T.O. on a thread many of you got amazingly defensive – that says quite a bit.
@Schneerson
You were much funnier as Coke Stevenson. Now you’re just fucking retarded. Oh, wait, you’re Phlogiston, right? So you’re either a trailer-dwelling racist piece of shit, or XPT’s all time king of butthurt. Either way, you lose as a person.
@Lubben
Does Ron Jeremy still have to use his thumb and fore-finger as a self produced cock-ring? That’s one dysfunctional cock that you shelled out $600 for.
@Monica
So now you’re defending Lubben? If you keep up all of this non-sensical flip-flopping, not even you’re beloved lord and savoir is going to believe a word you say.
Oh yeah, and RIP Echo Valley. That was what we were talking about, right?
@Monica
We mock her faith because she uses it to push her worldview on others and pre-judge others. Just as you have shown a knack for pre-judgement…
Also, if you’re going to post in a public form, don’t expect to be ignored…
*forum
Monica, I have stood up for Shelly in the past but I seriously doubt her ministry. Find another to reach out to….
I’m not saying this because I disagree with her quest to end porn. I just don’t think her ministry fosters a good environment for girls to recover. Most girls don’t stick with her…
Shit!
I was wrong and I apologize, Shelly. Michelle Avanti has not returned to porn. Jules Jordan must have simply distributed an extremely old scene.
I sincerely apologize for attacking and condemning you. I did not have all the facts and as such had no right to make such claims about your ministry.
But I’m still uncertain. Michelle Avanti has definitely NOT returned? Anyone know?
My friend Sinnamon Love just told me about this new organization: http://fantinesdream.org/
I have not spoken with them yet, and this I do not endorse them per se, but there it is: another resource to consider.
Damn Origen, where’d you find that out?
And don’t feel bad about ridiculing Ms. Lubben and her organization, there is still plenty more there to ‘condemn’.
@Michael Whiteacre
At just a cursory glance, that seems like a much more genuine and level headed organization. I especially like how they emphasize they are not there to critique or judge…
I also like the fact they’re stating where the money goes, up front… Job training, College, help performer’s seeking to leave the industry with bill’s, etc. And the best part: a picture of the founder isn’t the first thing you see…
Origen, if you’re looking for an organization to support, I would at least give these guys a glance…
No, you mock her because you’re insecure and don’t feel good about yourself. As for me “flip-flopping”… I’m entitled to change my mind as I please as I move through life and grow and develop.
As for pushing a “world view” – come on…porn and the media in general has been pushing so many negative ideals upon our society (and nowdays at an increasing rate upon on youngsters) for so long that that for you pinpoint Lubben for expressing her viewpoints and concerns for people’s health and well being as being as completely off kilter doesn’t make much sense.
I misjudged Lubben and I’ll admit it. Before I formed opinions of her I should have actually spoken with her and read her book. No, I’m not a member of the Pink Cross, but I am a friend of the Pink Cross – just as I’m a friend of people who work within the adult industry sphere who I feel are truly professional and responsible.
Unfortunately as of current the adult sphere as a whole is not something I’m comfortable saying is a good industry to enter or even remotely close to being safe. As of current I feel it’s down right dangerous due to the unprofessionalism on and off the sets and the lack of education and care for the health and well being of the performers. I feel like our country gave the porn industry a solid chance and now most likely the government will have to step in to correct quite a few blunders that stem from being irresponsibility and selfishness.
The real issue I feel many of you have with Lubben is that she’s succeeding in making those in power realize that condom use in porn makes sense – because it does. If Wicked has been able to stay afloat for as long as they have utilizing safe sex practices along with Next Door Studios, then I’m sure those of you who are savvy and professional enough could do the same. If you can’t – move along and do something else.
I’ll tell you why many of you in my eyes don’t want to utilize condoms – cause you want to fuck the girls behind the scenes condomless and don’t want the girls to fight you on it.
If I were in the shoes of being a porn “professional” I’d worry less about Lubben and myself, and I’d worry more about retaining the few “whores” that you still have in the talent pool. Your influx of new talent is dwindling – fast. The truth is that many of you porn “professionals” are nothing without your “whores” (and that’s what really angers you the most).
It must really suck to know that you are completely dependent upon the “whores” of which you look down upon and mock and abuse – and without an ongoing supply of fresh meat you are nothing and your livelihoods will diminish and become well – non-existent 🙂 Seems to me it’s already happening.
I suppose that could be why some of you dislike me so much and want me to just “go away” or “move on” – because as long as I’m around – I’m a symbol that shows your “whores” that you want to believe are dependent upon you (whereas in actuality it’s just the opposite) that it IS possible to work in the adult sphere independently – and then it IS possible to transition out and live a decent life. I’m doing it – you hate it – because it frightens you.
Look, I’m just a teacher. I realized from when I first became a webcam girl that I am my own product, so I taught quite a few other women and men to realize that. Then after entering porn I realized that it didn’t make sense to loan out my product to anyone who didn’t understand the potential of it – so I taught that. Now I see that due to the lack of respect for the product you sell (and that your careers are dependent on) as of current no one needs to lend themselves to you to sell until (and I doubt you ever will) you give that product (the talent) the same respect that nearly every other industry in this country give’s it’s workers/employees.
Some of you out there reading this have a hard have grasping these concepts – which is why you attempted to hurt me (like a child throwing a temper tantrum). I’ll admit – I have been hurt – but this entire process has made me far stronger and much more aware as to who I really am and the potential I have within.
I’m very disappointed in the tactics that have been utilized in regards to the bullying, attempted intimidation and the unprofessionalism of the industry as a whole. I’m not going to stop telling the truth about my experiences, because I’m not going to let you have much more product until you can respect what that product really is – people – human beings with SOULS.
The world has been out of balance for a long time and is finally starting to even out a bit which is why there have been many “upsets” across the board – however we’re primarily talking about “porn” here so I’ll stick to that in this response.
There has to be a balance. Within the adult industry sphere there has to be an exit – and for many Lubben provides that exit – or at least the HOPE and inspiration of an exit to something more. Lubben helped me to regain my faith and hope – she showed me kindness and displayed forgiveness. That’s what I needed. Some other women may need more from her – others less – the point is she’s doing what she can – which is far more than many of you have ever done in your LIVES. Yes there are other organizations I’m sure that assist women looking to leave porn – but from what I can tell – they’re all about the same and none appear to be what I’d call “complete”. What I like about Lubben is that she’s actively OUT THERE in your face – telling most of you exactly what you are – shit.
Porn should not, can not and will not be a cage – no matter how much many of you would like it to be. Though I’m moving on in life, I’ll continue to remain aware of what’s happening in porn to ensure that it does NOT EVER become a cage without an exit, so deal with it.
Now there are options for those of you who don’t want to get with the program that’s knocking on your door…
You could move into the lucrative gay side of porn (oh…but then you couldn’t fuck women that you never had a chance with in highschool), you could move into the transgender sect (which many of you dig currently but for whatever reason have a hard time admitting to), OR you could LEAVE THE COUNTRY.
It’s up to you – do what you like. Regardless change is coming – the truth is being delivered to the people – and a balance is being restored.
Have a nice day and may God and Jesus Christ help you 🙂
@ Voltaire,
Frankly, they need anecdotal support. Saying they do all these things and actually doing them are two different things.
And according to Shelly’s post #54, Madelyne is definitely not in porn and still with the Pink Cross.
Which brings me to another rant. How CHEAP does a producer have to be in order to supply a DVD line with content that is almost THREE YEARS OLD?
@Monica
Nope… That’s not it…
“Unfortunately as of current the adult sphere as a whole is not something I’m comfortable saying is a good industry to enter or even remotely close to being safe. As of current I feel it’s down right dangerous due to the unprofessionalism on and off the sets and the lack of education and care for the health and well being of the performers. I feel like our country gave the porn industry a solid chance and now most likely the government will have to step in to correct quite a few blunders that stem from being irresponsibility and selfishness.”
Sadly, Monica, I have to agree with you. The adult industry as it stands today is not QUITE a “good” one. From a utilitarian standpoint, the negative outcomes of the Industry seem to outweigh the positives. Its like prostitution–in theory it works great on libertarian principles but in actuality it involves coercion and irrational decision-making.
@Origen
I agree, saying and doing are two very different things… At least this group isn’t coming out demonizing the adult industry in the name of God…
@origen – Either way, it doesn’t really affect Pink Cross’ overall success/failure rate — or justify Mrs. Lubben’s tactics.
Ask Chrissy Moran, who was at one time associated with Lubben, but went off to another ministry. Could it be she heard about the mocking impression Lubben used to do of her voice, or how Shelley told people Chrissy was “so stupid”? Hmmm, I wonder…
Ask Brooke Ashley, who, at a time when she was most vulnerable — sick everyday from not only her medical conditions, but also from the treatments — was told by confidence artist Lubben AND her rap EP producer/cameraman/dinner companion “Ricky B.” that the Lord would cure her HIV if she joined Pink Cross (read: allow Lubben to use her as a promotional tool). Brooke received nothing from Pink Cross, and actually had to pay for her own airplane ticket and hotel room at AEE so she could work the Pink Cross booth.
You remember the extortionistic threats against Taryn Thomas via MySpace?
How about Savannah Jane who, while recovering from breast cancer surgery in Florida, agreed to accept help from Pink Cross. What did she get? Lubben took over her MySpace page (locking Savannah out of it) and began raising money on Savannah’s behalf. Savannah agreed to represent Pink Cross at its booth during the Adult Expo in January 2009, and paid for her own way there. She was not provided a room to stay in, either. Savannah was told that Pink Cross could help her get her hearing fixed, but she never saw any money even though her fans stated they’d donated money on her behalf.
Shelley told Savannah she had to sell everything she owned, including her truck, because these things had been purchased with money from “sex work.” Savannah, who was then looking for a job, refused (how was she going to find work without a vehicle) and then was counseled by Shelley to go back to her family for help. What did Savannah receive from Lubben? Two gift boxes with beauty supplies such as pink lip gloss (some beauty supplies and other things are apparently donated from Beauty From Ashes to Pink Cross) a pink bible, a T-shirt, a candle, a pink bracelet, a Christian music CD, and a jar of “foot soak” — because, I guess when you’re out walking around all day looking for work because you had to sell your evil vehicle, your feet are gonna hurt.
There are more, origen…
And Michelle/Maddy posted here on LIB indicating she had left Pink Cross. She did not specifically indicate she was returning to porn.
@Origen
I have to disagree with you on that. While I’m sure coercion and irrational decision making does take place, as it does in ALL industries. If it were as rampant as you suggest, I could not imagine the adult industry surviving at all…
Ah and one more thing – in regards to Ryder…
No, Ryder I don’t think you’re the head of the “porn mob”. The head of the “porn mob” would be someone far less flamboyant and someone far more aware. I believe you had aspirations to be however – but unfortunately it’s just not your fate. I actually haven’t seen a “professional” of your “caliber” and age stick his foot in his mouth as often as yourself in quite a while.
There is a reason that Myspace and Facebook just teamed up to scan for kiddie porn as of recent – it’s on the rise and some of your productions encourage the underage sex trend – which is unacceptable.
Again – I’ll link to a recent Monica @ Home broadcast to illustrate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy25rtdM3Hk&feature=channel_video_title
I included photos and examples in the broadcast so that my view is easy to understand.
Just admit you have an attraction to little girls – get some therapy and get on with your work.
Monica, it has nothing to do with porn being a cage, or whatever the hell your ranting about now. It comes down to the fact that people like to watch people fuck. I’ve never watched a porn, stroked it, and said to myself, “yeahhhhhh. She’s trapped. She’s never going to get out of this hell. Oh, oh, that did it, now I need to wash off”.
Hell, I’ve been disinterested in DVD porn ever since Jules Jordan raised the quality bar and every single other company started copying his approach. Gonzo went from a crazy, dirty place, to a High-Def, glossed over, “these chicks are untouchable goddesses” place. Same ole’ boring stacked blonde strippers slowly walking up a set of stairs to a room full of Marco Banderas. FUCKING BORING. Whatever happened to the glory days of Red Light and Anabolic. The scenes where your looking at this girl and thinking, “if I had the right drugs or money, I could do the same thing to this little slut” Now, it’s just the same plastic, phony strippers phoning in the libido. There’s no more variety. There’s no more sense that you might get something unexpected.
99% of the porn I watch these days is pure, homemade amateur content. No cages, no sleaze-balls, just people fucking for fuckings sake. Real girls, skinny, fat, old, young, whatever. Attitude is everything. Whether it’s because they’ve got money and drugs in their eyes when staring at a 10 inch cock, or because they just enjoy sex and fucking, (yes, Monica, there are girls out there that enjoy sex and fucking), I only enjoy porn where the girl is enjoying the activity, or putting on a damn good job faking it.
@Fartz
Excellent points Fartz, I’d say you hit the ‘nail on the head’…
I think it could even be said that part of the reason the adult industry is in a lull right now is lack of originality… People are bored and the next diredtor/producer that come up with something new will start to cash in!
@ Voltaire
Yes, coercion, exploitation, and irrational decision-making occur in EVERY industry. However, one must consider the SCOPE and the CONSEQUENCES of such phenomena when it comes to a person’s sexuality–and their psychological integrity for that matter.
@origen — WHO must consider those things? The State?!? The producer? How about the person entering the business?
Who considers the scope and consequences of people joining the armed forces to get their limbs shot off? Oh yeah — we have the mythos of patriotism and glory to get around that.
Performers deserve non-judgmental support services to help with all that. Telling people they’re immoral, disease-ridden, demon-possessed, drug-infested, mentally ill degenerates is NOT HELPING THEM, even if you follow it with “I love you.”
@Origen
Respectfully, not everyone is going to be affected in the same psycological ways when it comes to sex and sexuality. People need to be aware of their own personal constraints and make decisions based on those. I’ve stated this before in other threads, but people are adults and have to be willing accept that responsibility, including the consequences of one’s own decision…
@Michael
Ha! That last sentence is pure gold!
@Voltaire – It’s the Truth Behind the (Passive-Aggressive) Fantasy of Pink Cross.
And, your comment is dead-on.
@Michael
Your previous sentence accuracy takes it from gold-plated to pure gold! 24 karats baby!
@Origen
Just a note, but I have a feeling you and I would disagree on a great many things… But I honestly think you take the time to thoughtfully consider your comments, and I appreciate and respect that.
@Voltaire & @origen – I respect that too. Origen’s not full of shit.
Thanks Michael & Voltaire. But you can say I’m full of shit if you want. I can handle it.
@ Voltaire
“Respectfully, not everyone is going to be affected in the same psycological ways when it comes to sex and sexuality. People need to be aware of their own personal constraints and make decisions based on those. ”
I’m glad you said this. This statement is what I was aiming to address in the comment before last. In theory, everyone is aware of their own personal constraints and makes perfectly rational decisions when it comes to sexual consent. But when a financial incentive is thrown into the decision-making process, consent could be given even though it goes against a person’s moral standards or even results in psychological trauma. Which brings me to…
@ Michael,
Who is at fault when a person is traumatized from work they consented to? Is it the fault of the person who consented in the first place? Not entirely–as they were also the recipient of the traumatic act and they did not (at least completely) plan the act themselves.
And in regards to combat soldiers–it is a dehumanizing profession but one that is arguably necessary for preservation of civilization. The adult industry could make a comparable argument but necessity of the the adult industry (and I do agree, its necessary) is of less importance than that of a standing army. As such, the degree of dehumanization allowable must be scrutinized at an even higher level than what is imposed on the military. Especially as entertainment is highly subjective….
@Origen
Even with said financial incentive I still feel the responsibilty falls to the person making the ultimate decision. Everyone’s morals and values are different and it’s everyone’s personal responsibility to discern those. If someone has regrets about decisions they’ve made, then thats too bad, but ultimately the decision fell on them. Someone needs to be aware of possibly consenting to a traumitic event and live with the decisions he/she makes.
@origen – You wrote: “when a financial incentive is thrown into the decision-making process, consent could be given even though it goes against a person’s moral standards or even results in psychological trauma.” Ok, now you are somewhat full of shit. LOL
The nature of the incentive affects neither the nature of the risk nor the consciousness of the risk. This is true whether the incentive is pecuniary gain, or a boost in ego, or a sense of patriotism, or religious fervor, or a suicidal drive. It’s not just money that makes people make dumb, or potentially self-destructive decisions and life choices. The list is actually infinite, and therefore irrelevant.
You write further: “Who is at fault when a person is traumatized from work they consented to? Is it the fault of the person who consented in the first place? Not entirely–as they were also the recipient of the traumatic act and they did not (at least completely) plan the act themselves.” That’s not quite correct, or should I say, it’s only a portion of the picture.
First, as you know, there are foreseeable risks and there are unforeseeable risks. Second, a degree of self-awareness is a useful trait, and its absence is quite perilous. One has to look at each person’s experience, knowledge, understanding and capability independently. Adult performers — like the members of any industry — are not a monolith. I chose the armed forces as an extreme example; you don’t really think that military service is the only undertaking which places those who perform it at risk of psychological trauma?
Likewise, your social utility argument is out of place in a discussion of risk assessment and blame apportionment, and, if we follow your reasoning to its logical conclusion, shouldn’t we be screening out an unmanageable number of military candidates?
You wrote: “one must consider the SCOPE and the CONSEQUENCES of such phenomena when it comes to a person’s sexuality–and their psychological integrity for that matter.” I repeat my question to you — WHO must consider those things, and WHY, and TOWARD WHAT END?
Who is to be the vanguard? Who should protect people from, say, a career in food service on the grounds hat they won’t be able to handle the insults of patrons because they measure low on some self-esteem test? Who should protect people from, say, a career in food preparation, on the grounds that their clumsiness might lead to them burning their hand on the fryer?
Yes, a slippery slope argument — who would do this and where would it end?
Michael’s response is much more articulate, hence ‘better’ than mine, but I think we’re both basically stating similiar ideology. Ultimately, it is the right, even the responsibility of an individual to choose a path in life they deem suitable for themselves. It would be impossible, possibly discriminatory, to attempt to screen everyone for their mental capacity and stability to join any given industry.
The adult industry is an easy target. Especially when societal manipulation is proliferated in such a public way, from Shelley Lubben to Dr. Drew, espousing THEIR own personal values on society at large. Fact of the matter is, the vast majority of people who choose to professionally involve themselves in the adult industry suffer from no major psychological disruptions, or the industry would cease to exist. It’s unfortunate, but typically the most psychologically disturbed are the one’s most publically seen, ignoring, the commonly used term, ‘silent majority’.
Here is an article I think all should read and could help explain some recent happenings around here as of late…
Being ‘Born-Again’ Linked to More Brain Atrophy: Study
Wed May 25, 11:48 pm ET
WEDNESDAY, May 25 (HealthDay News) — Older adults who say they’ve had a life-changing religious experience are more likely to have a greater decrease in size of the hippocampus, the part of the brain critical to learning and memory, new research finds.
According to the study, people who said they were a “born-again” Protestant or Catholic, or conversely, those who had no religious affiliation, had more hippocampal shrinkage (or “atrophy”) compared to people who identified themselves as Protestants, but not born-again.
The study is published online in PLoS ONE.
As people age, a certain amount of brain atrophy is expected. Shrinkage of the hippocampus is also associated with depression, dementia and Alzheimer’s disease.
In the study, researchers asked 268 people aged 58 to 84 about their religious affiliation, spiritual practices and life-changing religious experiences. Over the course of two to eight years, changes to the hippocampus were monitored using MRI scans.
The researchers suggested that stress over holding religious beliefs that fall outside of the mainstream may help explain the findings.
“One interpretation of our finding — that members of majority religious groups seem to have less atrophy compared with minority religious groups — is that when you feel your beliefs and values are somewhat at odds with those of society as a whole, it may contribute to long-term stress that could have implications for the brain,” Amy Owen, lead author of the study and a research associate at Duke University Medical Center, said in a Duke news release.
The study authors also suggested that life-changing religious experiences could challenge a person’s established religious beliefs, triggering stress.
“Other studies have led us to think that whether a new experience you consider spiritual is interpreted as comforting or stressful may depend on whether or not it fits in with your existing religious beliefs and those of the people around you,” David Hayward, research associate at Duke University Medical Center, added. “Especially for older adults, these unexpected new experiences may lead to doubts about long-held religious beliefs, or to disagreements with friends and family.”
The researchers noted other factors related to hippocampal atrophy, such as age, depression or brain size, as well as other religious factors such as prayer or meditation, could not explain the study’s findings.
More information
The U.S. National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke provides details on brain atrophy.
Only thing about that is 268 people is not alot to get a decent average sampling of the population on something like this I would think. I would expect at least 2500-5000 would get better accurate results.
That is true Karmafan, the sample is a little too limited… Still, it is interesting…