Jeff Mullen & Cast working on his newest movie "Flight Attendants"
NL-Why are you certain that the porn industry is coming to an end? Could it just be in for a change from what we are used to?
Couldn’t it be falling fast just like everything else is because of the economy? What is the time frame when you think there will be no more porn? And what will people replace it with? Is there anyway to stop it from happening?
When the VCR came out it was said that no one would ever go to see a mainstream movie in a theater again….
When VOD started, the thought was that adult DVDs would no longer sell…
Jeff Mullen- I just finished my editing for the night on Flight Attendants and it is 4:30AM and I have a meeting at Hustler in the valley in the morning. I think people will love the movie when it finally comes out.
As far as the porn industry is concerned I lived through the collapse of the music industry and this is almost a similar thing except that the porn industry has no other major sources of income other than content which is being given away for free. Porn has never been more popular than it is at this very moment. More porn is being consumed this minute then ever before in history but the problem is a great deal of it is being consumed for free. People can spin it anyway they want and if I hear adapt or die one more time I am going to throw up.
This industry cannot adapt to free no matter how you slice it. Pretty soon the financial incentive for most companies to produce quality movies will disappear as a new breed of consumer scours the internet to find free still photos and video links to jerk off to for free. The mindset of the new generation of consumer will be impossible to alter into a pay for porn mode. Yes, the industry like all others has gone through many states of evolution and they have always managed to keep the books profitable in order to continue what was once a mammoth industry. However the end is near for many companies which is not necessarily a bad thing in a world of sameness. However, even the creative companies I doubt will be able to stay in business much past 18 months to two years before they pack it in and I’m talking about some giants of the industry.
In addition to what was once only pirated or stolen content on the torrent and tube sites now finds hundreds of sites with authorized porn being served for free by very well respected companies that in my opinion are waving the white flag before ever mounting a fight. This industry has really never gotten together to see if we can combat free porn and if they have I wasn’t invited to the meeting. So unless a brilliant idea surfaces, or the government grows some balls and starts to enforce copyright infringement cases, the future is dull at best. In the future they will listen to Disney and Warner Brothers but certainly not us.
There will always be porn being made by somebody somewhere and with the hundreds of thousands of free scenes already floating around freely today with many more scenes on the way, the average guy can jerk off every night of his life and never pay a dime. The only people in that scenario that got paid was the talent, the crew and the agencies and there will come a day very soon where they will no longer get paid. Certainly the producer or the person who funded the production is getting shafted in this brave new world so really who is the winner? I don’t think it is the consumer in the long run. Short term yes but we will wait and see on the future. Now before somebody thinks that I am simply complaining and not getting with the times, I will say that the genius who figures out this mess will be the next billionaire. Somebody probably will do it but as smart as I am, I don’t think I’m that smart.
My company X-Play is one of the lucky ones today because we are still incredibly successful but we definitely see the writing on the wall and are preparing for a porn-less future for our business which might be the best move in the long run as we have some high aspirations. I love the adult movie industry and will continue to work in it until it no longer makes financial sense. As far as VOD goes, that too will be something of a lost business model just like physical goods once the entire nation is devouring free content. Why will somebody pay if they can jerk off for free? Digital delivery on everything in our lives is the future and we are just scratching the surface as to what we will see in the next 10 years but no one and I mean no business can survive on a free model.
I hope I am totally wrong on this one but I just don’t see it going any other way and that sucks for a lot of us but for now we will continue to produce the highest quality adult comedy movies we can possibly make as there is a bright future for us somewhere. We plan to do really well for the next 2 years before it collapses completely.
Jeff Mullen
I just love how Mr. Mullen chastises the government for not enforcing copyright laws, but at the same time his companies choose to ignore health and safety laws. The porn industry basically says fuck governemtn interference in our business, and then demands that they enforce only certain rules that affect their bottom line. You dont get it both ways.
Mr. Mullen states”…as samrt as I am, I dont think I’m that smart.” Nobody beleives youre that smart Jeff.
Mr. Mullen states>>>…”the governmetn grows some balls and starts to enforce copyright infringement cases….” Since you seem to be advocating the government do their job, then I guess you would agree that the government should enforce the health and safety laws also. Thand you Mr. Mullen for advocating for the government to enforce the laws in your industry.
Ultimately, all these problems with pirating will make a better product. Right now almost all porn sucks, that’s the worst business model you can possibly have.
little g, you’re the disease that can’t be cured. Worse than herpes, and twice as annoying – just like the government. Now go outside and play and let the adults talk about grown-up things.
Mullen “Porn has never been more popular than it is at this very moment.”
Says who? Besides, it was pretty damn popular back during the 70s when average people and Hollywood celebrities were lining up to see Deep Throat or Behind the Green Door.
Porn is more widely disseminated and more easily accessible than it has ever been in history. Yet just because more people can see it now than ever before, in the privacy of their homes (without leaving their homes), doesn’t necessarily make it any more ‘popular’ than compared to the past.
Mullen “People can spin it anyway they want and if I hear adapt or die one more time I am going to throw up. ”
Well get near a toilet or bucket, because ALL media/entertainment related industries will have to ‘adapt’ to the new technological realities facing this world. Yet where Mullen gets it wrong, is trying to compare Porn’s troubles to other media/entertainment industries. Each will have to find the right ‘solution’ that works with how said media is consumed. Be it newspapers, music, radio, television, Hollywood movies, video games, comic books, amusement parks, sports, et cetera each has a certain audience that consumes said media in particular and specific ways.
Mullen “Why will somebody pay if they can jerk off for free?”
That’s like saying, why would somebody pay for cable when they can watch broadcast TV for free, why would somebody pay for satellite radio when they can listen to the radio for free, why would somebody pay for the daily newspaper when they can go on the internet and read the ‘news’ for free…
It’s about content, choice and access. Again, all media/entertainment industries will have to figure out how to continue generating revenue while creating the best possible product. As a long time consumer of porn, it can get boring to watch the same five scenes again and again and again. I like to see ‘new’ girls in new scenes, or ‘old’ girls in new scenes. Granted, there are ‘go to’ scenes/movies for when you just want to rub a quick one out and don’t want to think too much — but again, just because something is ‘free’ doesn’t make it worth the time and trouble to see it.
Likewise, Porn will have to take on attitudes that Mainstream entertainment are just waking up to. For example, the guy who created Hulu made the interesting point in a recent interview that companies like his basically have two options in terms of growth; they either first give away free content (that they turn into pay content) or first create premium content that everyone will want for a small fee (further to that that point, they then set up a subscription model or a pay-as-you-go model).
As stated, Porn is as unique as the daily tabloid or AM Radio. People don’t consume porn the way they do other media. Thusly, be it today or tomorrow, sooner rather than later, Porn will have to come to grips with how people actually consume it and then devise a way to continue making the most amount of profits using the least amount of resources.
Yet when you have people such as Mullen who have essentially given up out of their own self-interests (“will continue to work in it until it no longer makes financial sense”), then the industry as a whole will never devise a way to save itself.
I find this the most interesting quote from the interview:
“As far as the porn industry is concerned I lived through the collapse of the music industry and this is almost a similar thing except that the porn industry has no other major sources of income other than content which is being given away for free.”
As far as I can see, the music industry is still alive (albeit in a different form from say 10-15 years ago). Free music is still available from Limewire, torrents and other sources but people pay for it too. Heard of iTunes? In fact, Indie music and live performance has grown in the Internet age.
Granted there will be changes but ask yourself what can porn learn from the music industry?
the solution is so simple that in reality it is frightening.
It’s called exclusivity. What ever a company does lock down that product. Sever it only on the web. Make it encrypted, Using Akimi to server it on a flash box.
next forget every porn star you have ever seen and go old school and look for your new girls everywhere. Like we did before agents.
Next do something that is way unique. Do it on a scene basis and your done.
lastly solo girl sites will work too due to guys falling for the girl if she has personality and is a freak.
Honestly the guys running adult these days all are lazy and forget that you have to work for your money. Lastly get out of LA move to a city with a party school that is not well regarded and go to town for 5-7 years. If you can do it bring a porn girl or two with you to help split the profits. These girls in one night of parting will bring you your talent for next to nothing. In Tucson we where paying $150-250 for a bg. We shot Tiana Lynn first I do believe. Along with Several other girls.
It is amazing to see that many of the LIB readers are experts on this subject. I don’t claim to be an expert but I am living in a business reality that some of you are not experiencing directly. As for the comments about the music industry surviving just fine I say BS. Ask anybody that actually works in the music industry how that business is doing and you will get a very cloudy report. iTunes is great but not at all the savior that some are making it out to be.
The music industry is different from the adult industry in that there are multiple forms of major income including live gate, merchandising, publishing, packaging, advertising and television. We have very little if any at all of those sources.
Yes, I understand we are living in a rapidly changing time and I am excited about the future. But in the same breath, I am also not tied to the adult movie industry in a way that if my business goes south I will be in serious trouble. I will adapt and continue on in some form of the entertainment business and thrive but my comment was that I really enjoy the industry and would like to continue for five more years at least.
I would be remiss is I didn’t comment directly on the General’s comments. Enforcing existing laws are really the only way to enforce order in society. You claim that we in the adult movie industry are ignoring laws about health and safety yet I challenge you to come up with a list of laws that we are breaking? What some feel is right or recommendable and what is actually law are very different things so get your facts straight please. We follow all laws so I think you have your facts screwed up just a bit.
Lastly, yes we will all adapt in some way and most if not all new technology will eventually benefit most of society but, and this is a big but- and I know some of you don’t want to hear this… theft of property is just that. If companies want to give their content away for free that is their business. However, if you don’t want your product stolen, your rights should be upheld by the existing law of the land. Laws that are already on the books.
I heard about a guy that is designing a new universal key that will fit any car’s ignition. After he steals your car that is safely sitting locked in your driveway or inside your garage how will you feel? Yes, there is a law against auto theft but the police are too busy with other crimes so that they cannot take your theft report. Now please don’t cop out and give me,” that isn’t a good comparison” because it actually is. I won’t steal your car if you promise not to steal my car. Content trading, exchanging or anything that you wish to call it is still theft or at the very least the companies that provide the ability to file share are fencing stolen property.
You wouldn’t believe the amount of free sites that we are pulling down Not Married with Children XXX from. We paid for the movie yet some people think since it is not a physical product that it is OK to steal it, share it, rip it or deliver it in any manner they wish. Yes new technology is great and I am all for it but the old school thought of thou shalt not steal still means something to me. Now I need a beer.
Why all the free porn content available almost anywhere?
Part of that problem lies that unscroupulous websites operators like incredible-dollars and many others have fucked over A LOT of porn consumers with severe overcharges, fraud and mediocre content. I have read on many forums and blogs the many times these [free content] posters were screwed with their credit cards. So in turn, they are screwing back those same companies by posting their content everywhere. The bottom line is that consumers are tired of being fucked over by these shady business practices.
I know, I know, two wrongs don’t make a right, and I’m not here advocating the piracy of content, but the porn industry seriously needs a head check in order to evolve and survive. Porn will never go away, as long as there are people inhabiting this Earth, there wil always be an audience. As the popular saying goes; the only thing better than pussy is new pussy. Even someone new like the extremely hot Kagney Linn Karter has an expiration date.
Will,
Here is the only law I need to cite to you that virtually every single porn company is in violationof every single day.
8 CCR section 5193
This section also includes the mandate that the “EMPLOYER” provide, at NO COST to the employess, follow-up testing and treatment, after expoosure to blood borne pathogens in the workplace.
Will, how often does your company pay for follow up testing of the employees in your movies, as is required by law?
P.S. Will, did you attend Steve’s meeting today? The above mentioned law is the one that the 16 companies are being accused of violating.
Will, does your company follow 8 CCR section 5193 or not?
And again, lets not go into the Independent contractor debate. The California State Supreme COurt has already established that porn performers are employees in the Brooke Ashley case. They are employees, period , end of conversation.
http://www.dir.ca.gov/dosh/adultfilmindustry.html
Hope this link works
http://search.ca.gov/search?q=5193&output=xml_no_dtd&site=ca_dir&client=ca_dir&proxystylesheet=ca_dir&submit.x=14&submit.y=8
Any mor equestions Will?
Polly want a cracker?
Thanks Will for your insight. You’ve added some great points. I don’t profess to be an expert on this. I just read and ask questions based on what I know. Good luck on your videos. — aw
http://search.ca.gov/search?q=5193&output=xml_no_dtd&site=ca_dir&client=ca_dir&proxystylesheet=ca_dir&submit.x=10&submit.y=11
Hope the links work.
Any more questions Will?
Will, I have posted links to the laws you are breaking. I have my facts straight. Please feel free to read them and then explain to us all why the porn industry doesnt have to folow these laws.
http://www.dir.ca.gov/dosh/adultfilmindustry.html
And heres another one for ya Willie. This is the OSHA page dedicated specifically to the porn industry. There are several other very specific laws cited on this page that virually every porn company is in violation of every day.
Are these facts straight enough for ya Willie? And if you dont understand what you read here, get a good lawyer. And in if the lswyer you have now tries to tell you that these laws don’t apply to the adult industry, jsut tell them to contact TTBOY and his lawyers, you can find them in Florida.(Which, if I am not mistaken, 7 complaints were filed today with the Dade County health department, and OSHA complaints were dropped off at the Fort Lauderdale OSHA office at 8040 Peters Road, building H-100.
General, can you name five performers exposed to a blood borne pathogen on one of his sets that he refused to pay for retesting with? Four? Three? Two? Even one?
Are you aware of whether or not he dishes out that ~$20 needed to insure his casts to cover them with Worker’s Comp?
I’d suggest that the ruling involving contractor vs. employee status are not so cut & dry but that’s a topic for another day.
There is no way forward for what we currently think of as “porn companies”.. IMO, they’re dead, because the web ultimately kills non-essential intermediaries. Contract stars, faux-Hollywood premieres, and the other trappings of an “industry” are toast.
But the business of getting paid to fuck on camera will be just fine. The money is simply gonna be spread more broadly to thousands of smaller entities, controlled directly by performers. No one will get fabulously rich, and few will get hugely famous… but that might be a good thing in the long run. A more human-scale type of pornography might lead to happier, more satisfied customers and creators alike.
I think porn will survive and Jeff, too. If the porn collapses entirely than society will have a true depression.
He and others will survive if they can last 2+ years when the dust settles out more. Consumers will eventually tire of the cheap free content and want the studios and the high-priced contract girls back when they are sick of looking at the average girl on the street for free. The studios haven’t really done enough to make average consumers care if they disappear. So no, nobody is really going to miss Jeff Mullen until he and the rest have been gone for a good amount of time. Just look at it as a long vacation;)
little general, you just go right ahead and keep beating your little OSHA drum, like the little fez-wearing government monkey you are. Holy smokes, TTBoy again; more taxpayer money well spent. Pass out the clip boards, fellas, ’cause the revenuers are goin’ on a ride!
Never let a little thing like the law get in the way of a good time. Just ask any politician, g-monkey.
Houston,
Workers Comp does not cover the EMPLOYER mandated follow up testing to blood borne pathogen exposure in the workplace. That is a common misconception that has been thrown around the adult industry but it just simply is not true. The law mandates that the employer pay all the costs. If the EMPLOYEE is later determined to be injured, he or she can file a workers comp claim. The EMPLOYER cannot file a workers comp claim to pay for the follow up tests that he is responsible for. It doesnt work that way.
As far as your assertion that the IC versus employee issue is still up for debate, that is completely wrong. The California State Supreme Court has already ruled on that very specific issue. That debate is over.
Workers Comp claims are filed by the employee to get reimbursed for damages suffered in the workplace. Workers Comp claims are not filed by the employer to cover his costs for providing “services’ that he is required to do by law.
And TIRD,as far as taxpayer money being spent by OSHA, the fines levied by OSHA far and above cover the costs associated with administering the complaints. And as far as TBOY goes, he tried all of the same angles in his appeals,(Independent contracotr, workers comp,personal responsibility) that you have spouted time and again, and he lost, setting the precedent for the exact same violations that these 16 companies now face.
General, I think you misunderstood my main assertion regarding the testing. I wasn’t suggesting that Worker’s Comp cover it, just asking how many performers on one of his sets has asked him/X-Play to pay for a follow up test (the basis for your original claim of illegalities on his sets).
As far as the IC/employee matter is concerned, unless/until SCOTUS makes a widespread ruling on such a case without some of the specific limitations of previous cases, the debate is not “over”. Why you believe I’ve “spouted time and again” over the issue is a mystery to me but then you probably believe I’m another of those 40-alias wonders populating this forums.
Houston,
I may have misunderstood your point. Apologies to you.
But I think you also misunderstood my point, the talent shouldnt have to ‘ask’ the emplyore to pay for the tests. The law already requires it. The sooner the talent knows this, and more and more are learning it everyday, the better. Makes you wonder why nobody who represents the ‘talent’ was invited to Steves ‘secret’ meeting yesterday.
The last thing the porn industry wants is for the talent to be educated about their rights as employees. Why do you think the AIM Porn 101 makes no mention whatsoever of the LAW regarding fowllow up testing and the mandate that eimployers pay for it?????
The links to the exact laws the industry is in violation of are linked above. Read ’em and weep.
Question for Ernest Greene….ERNIE are you out there?
Does AIM inform the talent of the above refernced alws and the nandate that the EMPLOYER pay for follow-up testing? IF not, why not?
General, in a great many cases, the “law” as written is not the same as the law interpreted. To truly assert your rights, you must know both versions and understand the costs associated with demanding them.
For example, I’d be curious to know if the follow up testing being discussed necessarily had to be paid for without a specific claim of a blood born pathogen from a specific set. As it stands, all STD’s take time to show the symptoms and most performers work multiple times in a given time frame (some even doing multiple scenes per day). I glanced over the law linked above and it was unsurprisingly vague on a number of points, I’d be remiss as an employer to just accept a government agencies’ word for it that I could be singled out as the one responsible for any costs.
If performer “A” works on a “Skank-a-lot production” on a Monday and then comes in two days later to shoot a scene for “Ultra-clean Associates”, who is to say which company is required to provide the follow up testing? Given that most performers test every 28 days, I doubt a particular performer would be hired very often once it got out that she started demanding all sorts of things that might well be within her legal purview (and unlike a TRUE employee relationship of an ongoing nature, no company can be forced to hire anyone given the nature of the business). Is it worth losing jobs paying ten times as much as a test and garnering a reputation for being a diva to assert this “legal right” as interpreted?
As far as AIM is concerned, for all the lengthy tomes created by Ernest and company, I don’t think many people believe they are strictly in the business of helping the contractors. Their mere presence allows companies to point to an (admittedly shaky) industry standard, however flawed it may be.
houston,
you make several good points, and I like your last paragraph.
Part of the laws cited here expressley prohibit discrimination against those who choose to assert their rights. Funny how those in this industry are all for ‘thier right to produce pornogra;hy’ but shudder at the thought of alowing the performers to exercise their rights to clean and safe work evnironment.
You bring up a good point about multiple employers, which is why the concept of dual employment is so imporntat here. Agents can ce considered ‘DUAL EMPLOYERS” when it comes to provideng the hep vacinces and tests. The agents may be held resposnible for booking a person to work in an unsafe environment.
This is a very complicated situation, but the bottom line is the “employee” is not responible for health and safety in the workplace. If the employee is doing the job they are paid for, and doing it correctly, then the emplyoer is the responsible party. If you are making a profit off of someone else’s risk, you bear a legal responsibilibty for the risk that you have hired that person to take.
As far as AIM goes, it is a non-profit charity. Their system, for what it is, has no legal standing in the debate over employee vs employer relationships. AIM exists primarily because the industry does not follow the law. If the industry followed the law there would be no need for AIM. AIM is nothing more than a charity that offers low cost testing to anybody, it has no legal standing as far as the industry goes.
Thanks for your well thought out and articulate comments Houston. Nice to have somone here who can debate without sinking to the level of some of those here.
If performer X gets semen in her eyes on a set, the producer on that set is liable for follow up testing. That can mean testing two or three weeks later, as well as immedeately afterwards.
General, those that argue with their emotions tend to lose control pretty quickly so I appreciate the civil discourse as well. I know infection vectors carry different risks but as a producer, I’d be less willing to bear the full costs for retesting on a performer two months later if she worked 50 times for others since the eye shot, for all I know the gal working with trannies in Brazil doing anal creampies.
And whatever discussion about rights we engage in, porn is first, second, and last, a business where different people employ others based in part on risk levels (the compensation rates adjusted accordingly). Greg Zeboray once proposed an insurance plan for all the performers in the industry but it wasn’t just the companies that rejected it, it was the performers too; everyone wanted something for nothing and frankly, that just doesn’t work in any business.
Now that the economy is tight, I expect the marginal companies to skip getting permits, lose crew members (making shoots more dangerous), and engage in all sorts of behaviors that are not contractor friendly but having watched hours upon hours of BTS from Ryder’s movies like the Cosby flick, Not Married with Children, and his others, I don’t see him doing so as has been suggested earlier in the thread. I would argue that no one has ever asked X-Play for a followup test so that law is not being broken, just as everyone I’ve ever talked to has wanted to work for Will and Scott again (not the sign of profiteers endangering workers/contractors to make a couple extra bucks).
Heck, the only negative thing I have heard about them is that they work people endless hours but even that is always followed up with comments “but it was worth it” because most of their flicks are seen by a lot of people compared to generic gonzo offerings (and placement in a handful of select titles can generate a lot of positive publicity for performers).
Oh well, you’re right about many companies though and frankly, as a fan of both sides, I wish there was a way to strike a fair balance between companies and performers in a whole slew of areas…
Ah, little g-monkey, you found a friend. How sweet. And this after pissing off everybody that you’ve whined to, insulted, and “read ’em and weep”-ed to here since your little brown snout poked up out of your hole in the ground. Oh, and I love this bit: “Nice to have somone here who can debate without sinking to the level of some of those here.” Are you referring to yourself among “some of those,” g-monkey? Please reference when your comments were actually deleted by LIB moderators due to their blatantly offensive nature (which takes quite a bit of effort on a blog like this!). You are so typical of a government lackey – brown-nose over here, talk shit over there. What a pathetic hipocrite.
By the way, your kudos to Houstondon—to whom I have to give kudos as well for his excellent points. Thank you, HD—should go to me also, as he brought up similar points that I had made to you in several earlier threads. Seems you have a short memory, which I might expect from an OSHA drone. To whit, no performer/employee can prove with any legally acceptable accuracy where he or she may have been subjected to a claimed STI, due to the multiple workplaces and contacts—both work-related and private—involved. This argument goes back to our recent single-victim HIV incident, over which you were gloating and predicting a rain of legal hellfire, g-monkey. Remember that, little guy? The same point applies to your latest monkey-drum issue – follow-up testing and legal/financial responsibility of the employer. Additionally, as Houstondon points out, the regs as written are weak and quite open to legal challenge, so hold on to your weepy hankie, because you’ll be needing it when the court cases begin.
One last comment on your continued drivel, g-monkey:
“AIM exists primarily because the industry does not follow the law. If the industry followed the law there would be no need for AIM. AIM is nothing more than a charity that offers low cost testing to anybody…”
Really? Are asserting that Cal-OSHA and LACDH alone can completely safeguard the health of porn performers, solely through the use of barrier protection? Because I’ve heard nothing about the establishment of a comprehensive testing program from either of these agencies, and those of us with properly functioning intellects know that condoms and dental dams alone won’t do the trick. Seems to me that AIM is a vital component, doing the job that no state or county agency can handle, or afford. Pretty damn good work for an operation that is “nothing more than a charity,” I’d say. But then your disrespect for AIM is deeply ingrained, and it wouldn’t make any difference if Mother Teresa rose from the dead and was drawing blood for this “charity” organization.
Your shit shovel just gets bigger all the time, little guy. Better add some knee pads soon.
WHOA! I thought of a great idea for a feature last night.
Okay, so there’s this senate impeachment investigation against the president and members of the cabinet each accused of conspiring in swinger activities. Each of the key people accused are brought forth for questioning and their testimony would be accompanied by seized video recordings of their sexual exploits. The sex scenes would be shown in gonzo format in contrast to the main story, the impeachment trial, with would be a feature-drama. Film this bad boy with 2k resolution and give the drama scenes some quasi-mainstream acting with some gritty cinematography and it would be the most critically acclaimed feature since “The Fashionistas”. Also, its a great chance to bring some philosophical discussion into porn–the relationship between sex and public opinion (as wife swapping in the White House is not an actual crime). Well, the last point may be stretching it a little….
Jeff certainly makes some interesting points, and it’s nice to hear the perspective of someone already inside the industry. Like he said, hopefully he is totally wrong. Maybe the porn industry will surprise us 🙂