Sunday, August 8th, 1999

Part One of the Debate Part Two

Dominic to Paul: "How can you prosecute for something on the internet?"

Paul: "It's very easy... If it is published in the area where you are you are able to sue him in that area and to sue him for damages. If you pump it into Detroit from wherever you are and it affects someone in Detroit, they can sue you in Detroit. If it is Buffalo, LA, wherever... If someone sends something out over the web that offends the obscenity laws, they can be prosecuted from where it's sent or where it's received..."

Ed: "We have Luke F-rd...who admits that he is not friendly to the adult industry but he likes to report and make comments, include gossip about the industry..."

Luke: "I have many emotions towards the industry. Sometimes I am quite friendly and sometimes I am vicious..."

Paul Cambria: "You can be as vicious as you like, so long as you are accurate. You don't have to be friendly. Nobody is suggesting that he turn friendly. We just want him to turn accurate. If it's parody, say it is a parody."

Ed Powers: "Do you agree with that Luke?"

Luke: "I think those are strong points."

Mike from Hungtington Beach: "The only place that I see AIDS even being discussed is in the porn industry... For a while, a lot of the TV programs because of political correctness were showing a little bit of restraint in the way of sexual activity and the use of condoms... And all that just went by the wayside... The adult industry is in the avante garde..."

Luke: "The adult industry has led the way in many areas including not just AIDS but technology. The first uses of many different forms of technology has been to transmit pornography. From the printing press to many of the first novels to cable TV to use of pay-per-call telephone services to the internet, pornography has led the way. So even if one thinks of pornography as evil, frequently many good things will come out of evil."

Mike: "Luke, what specifically do you find upsetting about pornography?"

Luke: "I think it is destructive. I think the male sexual animal is very dangerous... I believe that the sex drive in general is very dangerous. And I believe that the ideal form of sexual expression should be within heterosexual marriage and once you start getting further and further outside of that, it is dangerous. And with pornography, once you start substituting fantastic images and start masturbating to them, that this can start corrode people's self esteem, their soul... I believe that morally responsible disciplined adults can use pornography with no harm... But frequently people will become addicted to it... Frequently it haunts the people who make it for the rest of their lives. For some of these women who will make three pornographic videos and then they will want to flee from the industry but those images are there forever and at any time come back to humiliate them."

Paul: "Why do you have it on your site?"

Luke: "That I find something troubling does not mean that I eschew it."

* Paul: "It doesn't mean that you can't be hypocritical about it..."

Luke: "I don't use the word hypocritical in that sense that there may be ideals that I do not live up to..."

* Paul Cambria: "Usually that's what it means. Say one thing, do another... And basically you've espoused the Jerry Fallwell Robertson approach to that kind of material but on the other hand you're making a living off of it."

Luke: "Like the New York Times makes a living from writing about the Mafia or politics..."

Paul: "There are lots of people who write about things and don't turn around and say this is horrible... I can't believe these things exist... But at the same time you advance it. You're not just writing about it... You have links on your site that take you to adult material. So you are way beyond writing about it. You are a participant. It's hypocrisy which I guess you don't have a problem with..."

Luke: "No, I guess I don't. I'm a hypocrite."

Ron phones: "A couple statements towards Luke. I don't think you should put anything on your site that is not factual... And don't be so closed minded to such an open world as the adult industry... I have read that a prominent male star tested positive for HIV...and that he had been sidestepping accurate tests..."

Luke: "We're talking about the most talked about HIV case in the heterosexual porn industry this decade. Marc Wallice... And around April 21, 1998, I wrote on my site that my sources told me that Marc Wallice was HIV positive. There was an immediate uproar... I remember Mark Kernes emailed me saying 'this is baloney. If Marc Wallice were HIV positive, we here at AVN would know about it.' Eventually Marc came in and took his first PCR DNA test for the HIV virus and on April 30 the test came back and he did have HIV. Did Marc Wallice transmit HIV to several actresses? We know that Marc Wallice had unprotected anal sex with up to six different porno actresses who have tested HIV positive... Many people believe that Marc is the source of infection...

"Many people have claimed that Marc knew all along that he was HIV positive... Marc was taking ELISA tests at a clinic that almost noone else in the porn industry used... Marc asked the clinic to release his previous HIV tests... And they showed that on some of the tests he was noted as a female, as 49 years of age [Marc was born around 1960]..."

Ron: "Doesn't this back up what the prior caller was saying that you could have people in the industry working with HIV?"

Ed: "When you have everybody showing accurate tests..."

It's now 1 AM PST, Sunday morning.

Luke: "Paul, may I ask you a question? Is a porn producer [in California] legally allowed to require that performers in his pornographic video present HIV tests? I thought it was actually against California state law for HIV tests to be used as a condition of employment?"

Paul: "I really don't know... I'm not an employment rights specialist..."

Luke: "This question is going around the porn industry and will probably be worked out in some form of legislation in Sacramento. But the upshot is, we can't place all responsibility for porn HIV on pornographers, producers be it Vivid or Extreme... The performers themselves have to take responsibility and demand to their partner's test and then judge, do I believe this person and do I believe his test."

Sierra phones: "I dance...I don't do movies... I've had things written about me on the internet that aren't true and not only did they hurt me but they affected my business. I understand writing things that are supposed to be funny or humorous but saying somebody has AIDS, that's not funny. That's horrible. That's tragic. It really does affect your business."

Luke: "For the rest of my life, I'm going to be haunted by that one [line]..."

Sierra: "I've heard things about myself that I can laugh at, that I know is not true... And I think that anybody hearing it or reading it would know it's not true... But if someone was to say something that horrible, why would you even say that or wish that on anybody or think it was funny that somebody had that? That's a serious problem in the industry especially adult entertainment... We're all at risk of that..."

Ed: "What was your mindset at the time?"

Luke: "Underlying the satirical statement, that when you require someone to use a condom, that you suspect the person of having some form of sexually transmitted disease."

Paul: "Oh that's nonsense. It could be that you don't want them to have one..."

Sierra: "There's a big difference in saying something that is humorous and something that is harmful... That has affected that person... If someone were to say that about me, it's guaranteed that would affect my business... Because people are going to doubt it. They are not going to know whether it is true or not... And they are not going to believe me if I run around all day and say it is not true, I don't have AIDS... Because people believe it... I've had people come up to me and say, oh they don't lie on the internet. The internet is truth. People believe that."

Paul: "They sure do. That's the element of damages."

Sierra: "You're affecting that person's whole life and career... That's how that person is making a living..."

Luke: "I think you make strong points. I stand looking terrible in this. I didn't write individual names... I couldn't even imagine saying that XYZ person has AIDS. I used three corporations but even there it is morally troublesome... It looks terrible and I increasingly feel how terrible what I did was..."

Sierra: "I think it is the phrase 'think before you speak' with anything... Not just that issue, but anything you write. Like the Brittany issue and her being satanic. People take that seriously. I'm sure there are people who go, oh she's satanic, she's freaky, she's this or that... And they are not going to want to buy her video or watch her... Because they have that in the back of their mind that she's satanic... And a lot of people who enjoy watching pornography don't want to be associated with the satanic thing... It's a whole other state of mind."

Luke: "I interviewed her ex-husband and he accused her of having some sort of thing with satanism... I sent it to her before I even thought of running it in any forum..."

Sierra: "If you had met her you would know that she is not satanic and there would be no reason for getting her approval to even print that... You're writing stuff about people you don't even know... If you knew the person, you would know that it is not even true and you would not need to write it."

Ed: "Looking for a little bit of insight into Luke's mind and the way he thinks, in the particular case where he made an accusation about the girls in the industry having AIDS, it says here, "all of the contract girls of the companies..." Why that? You say you did not mention names. Why that?"

Sierra: "He might as well have mentioned names."

Ed: "You might as well but the question is, you specifically say contract girls. What is the problem you have with contract girls, knowing that contract girls promote the mainstream... They're out there. The damage could be extensive particularly to them."

Luke: "It was just something off the top of my head. I said AVN, Vivid and VCA. AVN does not even have contract girls..."

Paul: "There you go, in your mind, you try to defend yourself by saying ludicrous... How does Joe Blow out there reading your site know that AVN does not have contract girls?"

Luke: "That's a fair question... But if he's a regular reader of my site..."

Paul: "He doesn't have to be a regular reader of your site to cause a defamation. It's not like you and your boys sitting around in your office and they know that Luke is poking fun this time. That's the responsibility attached to such widespread ability to communicate."

Ed: "Luke, I think if someone jabs at you, you want to get back at them on your site, maybe in what you feel is a funny or satirical way?"

Luke: "Sometimes when people jab at me, I want to get them back. Generally speaking, I run criticism on my site as is and I don't reply and I don't answer to it. I just let the person have his say, just like with Sierra now and Kevin Korey earlier... They've both been very eloquent and spoken from the heart and all I can do is honor what they say."

Paul: "You talk about the ex-husband gave you information so you put it on. That doesn't justify it or make it true. That doesn't give you a legitimate basis to believe it's true. If someone comes to you they may have an axe to grind... You are not immune from being legally responsible simply because someone told you and you repeated it..."

Sierra: "Exactly... I know that the people who have written bad things about me are people who don't like me... If they liked me, they wouldn't write it. So I am sure her ex-husband would have a problem with her and that's why he would say that, to hurt her... And why you would believe that is beyond me."

Luke: "I didn't say that I believed it. I simply quoted it... And passed it along to Brittany along with a series of notes that I had made from a couple of interviews about her..."

Sierra: "Are you just naive? If I told you that the world was going to blow up tomorrow, would you print it because I said it was true?"

Luke: "Yeah, I might print it."

Sierra: "Everyone must believe it and I must post it on my site. I've never seen your site, read it or nothing... I've heard about it. And everything I've heard has been bad... Don't you put a little thought into what you write?"

Luke: "I put some thought into what I write..."

Sierra: "Not a lot obviously..."

Luke: "If Ed Powers seriously called me at 11PM Monday and said 'Luke, the world is going to end tomorrow.' I would run that on my site with a banner headline, 'Ed Powers says the world is going to end tomorrow.'"

Paul: "You can't defame the world..."

Ed: "And I would say it is a parody... And if you're a spot on the pavement Luke, it would end."

Steve phones: "Luke, I tuned in and I heard you say something that sends fingernails across the blackboard... You said "HIV virus." The V in HIV stands for virus... Therefore, HIV Virus is redundant."

Luke: "I am wrong. I have sinned. Mea culpa."

Steve: "I don't understand why you have this website? What is the purpose of it? It must be to make money somehow."

Luke: "Yes I make my living off my website... I was left with about two thousand pages of notes from researching my book... And eversince the summer of 1997, I've been able to make my living at... And if I have to choose between writing on pornography and working as an administrative assistant temporary, I choose to write on pornography. So, it is a way for me to make a living and a way for me to amuse myself..."

Steve: "What is your opinion of pornography?"

Luke: "I think generally speaking it plays a destructive role. I generally think that it appeals to the lower elements in us. I think that the use of it by disciplined, morally responsible adults will usually be harmless... I think it is a mirror into the male psyche... I think that we can learn a lot from pornography, in psychology and in society and how people and technology work. I have 101 opinions on pornography."

Steve: "You also seem to think that the marital state between heterosexual male and heterosexual female is just about the highest state..."

Luke: "Yes... I believe that the male is very dangerous..."

Ed: "What do you mean by dangerous? You're not going to get shot in the head by sperm?"

Luke: "Testosterone is a key element in what gets men out of bed in the morning to go to work and it gives us our drive and our dynamism..."

Ed: "Why is that dangerous?"

Luke: "Because people will do all sorts of stupid things to get sex..."

Ed: "What stupid things?"

Luke: "Men will lie all the time to women to get sex."

Ed: "Do you lie to women to get sex?"

Luke: "They will imply commitment when commitment is not there..."

Steve: "You don't think that women won't lie to men?"

Luke: "Yes that happens but generally speaking it is men who are pursuing women and lying to women to get sex..."

Ed: "That has nothing to do with pornography. If it didn't exist, would they continue to do that? Would you lie to get sex?"

Luke: "I have lied to get sex."

Ed: "But you don't agree with pornography. So therefore you have your own vein..."

Luke: "I have my own flaws and faults entirely aside from pornography... Most murderers are single men, not married men and not women."

Steve: "Does that mean if they are single men that they are gay?"

Luke: "No. I am single and I am heterosexual. I believe that civilization depends on the harnessing of male sexual energy, putting them into marriage and weighing them down with kids and with a wife and forcing them to be monogamous... Otherwise they will spend their talents sleeping around with lots of different women..."

Ed: "Are you saying that we are horses?"

Steve: "What happened to me then Luke? I have been enjoying pornography since I was 14. I'm 53. I've been in a relationship for 27 years with another man. I have never wanted to damage him in any way... Pornography has never caused me to be angry at him or anyone..."

Luke: "I don't think that you are living the sexual ideal as I don't think that I am living the sexual ideal. There are people with homosexual tendencies and people who live out homosexuality. There are people who have adulterous tendencies and some live them out. There are many different drives...but I believe that we still need to uphold ideals even though that might make some individuals who don't live up to those ideals uncomfortable... Also, I am concerned about society. That an individual who does not choose to get married and chooses to lead a homosexual lifestyle and leads an honorable life and is absolutely a child of God and as valuable as any other human being, married or single...

"When you look at statistics for the homosexual lifestyle you see that the average number of sex partners seems to be around 500. And even the homosexual organizations will admit to that. While according to the University of Chicago sex survey of a few years ago, believed to be the most comprehensive, says that the average number of partners for a heterosexual is four or five... So I do think that the homosexual lifestyle is a destructive one. I think that the lifestyle of just pursuing many different sex partners does tend to desensitize and does tend to morally corrode. Does that mean that everyone who is sexually promiscious is a bad person? No. People are very complex. People can be sinning in one area of their life and be exemplary in another area but that doesn't mean we should not uphold certain sexual ideals."

Ed: "The adult video industry... There is a big spectrum..."

Luke: "Right. There is Ed Powers who's friendly and talks with the women and pays them twice as much as any other producer in the industry... And then there's fifty men jumping on one woman, huge gangbangs, the Extrem stuff from Rob Black where degrading women is key to the story driven lush productions from Vivid... But overall, that whole industry, that whole spectrum from Playboy to Rob Black at Extreme Video, is destructive."

Ed: "Because it is an outlet?"

Luke: "Because it exacerbates..."

Ed: "But it is an outlet... Do you know what outlet means?"

Luke: "Yes, not only do I know what outlet means, I exercise that outlet. I do not only look at pornography, I actually masturbate to pornography."

Ed: "And you're less dangerous after that, is that true?"

Luke: "That's true. I'm usually sleepy."

Ed: "You sleep good, don't you? After a good Dirty Debutantes..."

Luke: "Oh baby."

Steve: "Why don't you turn on your camera next time and send me a copy of it?"

Laughter.

Steve: "Maybe I'd sleep better."

Luke thought it was Paul who said that: "Paul, oh Paul...oh..."

Ed: "Would you feel better watching him masturbate?"

Steve: "Of course."

Luke: "I'm blushing."

Amanda phones: "I want to talk to Luke. Luke I think you are a disgusting man, a truly disgusting man and you have no right publishing this stuff that you publish. It is ludicrous. It is lies. And most of it is a lie... In fact, I know that some of it is true but the rare occassions you say something good about somebody, that is usually true. But all the nonsense that you talk... I work in the [porn] industry... I am not in the movies... I think you have no right to publish the stuff that you publish and I cannot believe that you are making a living doing it."

Luke: "You'll be glad to know that I make a very bad living. My car is a piece of junk. My apartment is smaller than this studio..."

Amanda: "Look, I don't care how you live. I don't care how you live. You are making an income from it... And that is truly disgusting to me.

"And number two. I wish that I could have the fortunate opportunity to meet you. I would spit between your eyes."

Ed: "Sounds like she is not a fan of yours, Luke."

Luke: "But how do you really feel?"

Amanda: "That is how I truly truly feel. And what kind of proof that you have to back up the stuff you say? I know one of your informants and his word means nothing to anybody. And what was that girl who was just on recently?"

Luke: "Sierra, the dancer?"

Amanda: "Sierra, if you're listening... Anybody who reads Luke F-rd and is in the industry and knows what he is all about, knows that he is full of s---. And don't even sweat it..."

Paul: "Sounds like spot on the pavement material there, Luke."

Luke: "Yeah, spot of spittle."

Ed: "We have people here who actually agree with Luke."

Luke: "No."

Paul: "Luke's cousin."

Luke: "My mother's calling. No. She does not agree. My parents are shocked appalled by their son Luke."

Ed: "We read about that."

Amando: "I agree with the guy 100%. He has the right to post what he wants. If people don't like it, they don't have to read it. Controversy sells."

[Luke's date suggested this same argument to him but Luke does not like the argument and never used it. I don't think I ever once mentioned "my rights."]

Paul: "Amando, do you have a mother? What if he said your mother has HIV? How would you feel?"

Amando: "That's not true. That's his opinion."

Paul: "That wouldn't bother you?"

Amando: "Not at all. Know what I mean? It's just like people calling the show and saying that Ed's a faggot, that Ed's gay..."

Powers cuts him off. "That's our own Babbabooie type nonsense that we have every now and again."

Rodney phones: "Luke, you are the man. Don't listen to Ed and these other guys..."

Luke giggles.

Rodney: "Luke knows what he's talking about."

Ed: "How do you know Luke knows what he is talking about?"

Rodney: "I'm his cousin [not true, I think he said that for satirical purposes only]."

Paul: "Ahahaha. We knew it."

Luke: "Hey, it's my cousin Rodney."

Rodney: "Luke, hey, I haven't seen you since the last family outing."

Luke: "Buddy, I miss you."

Ed: "Rodney aren't you the guy who wanted me to talk about issues?"

Rodney: "What are you talking about?"

Ed: "Aren't you the guy who wanted me to talk about issues?"

Rodney: "What issues?"

Ed: "I don't know. What issues do you have?"

Rodney: "What are you talking about?"

Ed: "What are you talking about?"

Rodney: "I'm talking about Luke."

Ed: "What about Luke?"

Rodney: "I'm not talking about issues, I'm talking about Luke."

Ed: "What about Luke?"

Rodney: "Wait a minute. What are you talking about?"

Ed: "What are you talking about? Which Luke?"

Rodney: "I'm a first time caller here."

Ed: "What's Luke's last name?"

Rodney: "I don't know."

Ed: "He's your cousin."

Rodney: "His name is Luke My Cousin."

Ed: "Are you sure?"

Rodney: "No, but you know what. He is my cousin. Let me tell you something Ed, I think Luke is entitled to his opinion. It doesn't matter what he's talking about... This is a country founded upon free speech."

Ed: "...He's even admitted that he was wrong. You're agreeing with a guy who says that he is wrong..."

Rodney: "No, I think Luke is sick because he doesn't know that he is correct. He thinks he's wrong because you guys are brainwashing him. Luke, listen to me."

Laughter.

Luke: "I'm listening Rodney. Help me Rodney."

Rodney: "I am your cousin. I am going to straighten you out..."

Rodney in a deep voice: "Luke, I am your father. Luke, I am your father."

Luke: "Oh thank you Rodney."

Ed: "Adam in Burbank..."

Adam: "I just watched one of your movies the other night. Luke?"

Luke: "Yes."

Adam: "You are a freaking idiot."

Luke: "Thank you."

Adam: "You are a moron."

Luke: "Thank you."

Adam: "You know what?"

Luke: "Yeah?"

Adam: "You make me so mad that I want to go up to the studio and beat your ass."

Ed: "No you don't."

Adam: "Yes I do. This guy makes me angry. I am in the business. I am a bodyguard. And I deal with clients who have to deal with this kind of scum, making up stuff, stressing them out, making them so fed up with life that they get on drugs and do crazy stuff because of morons like this. Oh man, I wish I could beat you. Do you know how miserable you make people?"

Luke: "How miserable do you make people?"

Adam: "Very."

Luke: "And I cause them to take drugs?"

Adam: "I don't know man. You've got something for everything. There's a reason why you live in a small apartment and aren't succeeding in anything. Because you are a scumbag."

Luke gets hysterical: "Oh there's the reason. Oh good."

Adam: "God will not let you succeed financially because you are a scum."

Luke: "Ok, I'm glad that I finally see that."

Adam: "You've got something to say about everything man."

Ed: "Adam, you're in the industry?"

Adam: "Not in the porno... I'm a bodyguard... I work with people trying to get sober... And I see the damage that people do when they make up this nonsense about people... It stresses people out. Don't you realize that you cause nonsense in people's lives?"

Ed: "There was a guy [Mike Albo] who used to edit a magazine... He used to write things about girls and guys in the industry... In one particular case he said this girl's breasts were this way or that way... So she went and augmented her breasts because of it... And she was self conscious about her looks because of this guy talking about it... We're talking about people."

Adam: "Luke, don't you realize that you are making people feel bad? That people lose sleep over you? You get off on that, don't you? Making people feel bad. You've got issues don't you?"

Luke: "Yeah, I do have issues."

Adam: "Yeah, why do you have to take it out on other people? Why is that? Are you that angry with life? Did you have a bad childhood or something? Or are you just stupid?"

Luke: "I think I am just stupid."

Adam: "I think you are. Man, I want to go down there and show you what's up. I want to beat you down."

Ed: "I think just the thought of that is enough for him. I don't think anything physical would make anything come about. Were you ever attacked Luke?"

Luke: "Yes, I was assaulted at the Adult Video News Expo a few weeks ago."

Adam: "Good. Did they hurt you?"

Luke: "Moderately."

Adam: "Good. I hope that that makes up for some of the mental pain that you cause people. And I hope that it happens again and again."

Luke: "Do you also hope that that happens again and again to other people who write on any industry who cause upset and pain? I'm not the only person who writes and causes..."

Adam: "We're talking about you right now. So you've got to take the blame and push it away. You've got something to say about everything, don't you? You've got an answer for everything? Can't you sit here and take any blame? Don't you feel guilty a little bit that you make things up?"

Luke: "Yes, I feel guilty a little bit."

Adam: "Why don't I believe you? I can't believe you. You make me sick."

Ed: "Well, I tell you right now that he is at a loss for words."

Adam: "He has been the whole show. He's been stuttering and he can't come up with anything."

Ed: "He looks very sullen and he looks very hurt."

Adam: "I don't believe you."

Ed: "Adam, I wouldn't lie. Now you're linking me with him..."

Adam: "Ed, I love you."

Ed: "His look right now. His face turned very red. He's got a nervous habit with his fingers."

Adam: "He's been nervous the whole time he has been on your show. But he sounds very uneducated. His comebacks? He doesn't sound like the brightest man in the world. He sounds pissed off at the world. There's something wrong with him so he's pointing the finger at sex, at porno. I think this dude's got some sexual issues or something. I think somebody got a hold of him. Did your uncle or somebody get a hold of you buddy? Issues you haven't dealt with?"

Luke: "I'm sure that there are issues that I have not dealt with and that my own psychological flaws play into my writing as Ed's..."

* Adam: "He's got an answer for everything."

Luke: "As I am sure that Ed's psychological flaws will play into his show and work."

* Adam: "You see. You've got an answer for everything. You've got to downplay everything. The fact that people lose sleep over a pathetic loser like you, an uneducated poor loser like you, a financially unsuccessful loser like you... I can't comprehend this."

Ed: "I think your point is taken."

Adam: "I'm sorry."

Ed: "No. I think your point is taken."

Damien: "Oh, I wish I could talk to Adam. Why does he want to resort to violence?"

Ed: "Violins? Maybe he doesn't know how to play guitar?"

Damien: "I'd back Luke up anytime. I'd back him up. I'd back you up too Ed. I'd back you all the way up."

Ed: "There he goes again. He's getting even funnier..."

Paul: "I have a great suggestion. I think that Luke's entire site should start off with 'Once upon a time.' Like all fairy tales, then people would know exactly what they are getting into. What do you think Luke?"

Luke: "I think that is a great idea. I think I am going to do that."

Paul: "It may not work. It may not be legally successful for you. But at least it will be a beginning."

Ed: "I can read it tomorrow. Once upon a time, Paul Cambria came out of the closet..."

Luke: "And he was wearing a tasteful purple chiffon gown that accentuated all his curves."

Paul: "None of that would bother me at all. As long as you keep it accurate when it is supposed to be... And if you are going to be satirical... I'm not convinced that you're convinced but maybe it is a beginning."

Ed: "Thanks Paul Cambria. Luke, do you have a final statement?"

Luke: "Yes, I want to let the words sink in. I'm not capable of turning on a dime in the midst of a radio show. I think that Paul Cambria has spoken eloquently and powerfully. There is a tradition of the Hebrews that the same word for words is the word for things. That words are significant, that words are things. That words are as real as walking down the street or a fire, and words can be fire. And they must be used responsibly."

Ed: "You said that that is in Jewish law?"

Luke: "Yes... Words are every bit as real as this microphone that I am speaking into and that is why I must use them responsibly. And that's why they provoke such passion. That's why the previous caller wanted to come down here and rip me apart. Words are just as real as his purported punches."

Ed: "And you are going to transcribe this show verbatim?"

Luke: "Yes, anything with our friend Mr. Paul Cambria in purple chiffon will be totally separate from this transcription."

Ed: "I think he's more of a silk kind of guy."

Paul: "That's right Ed. You know me. We were at that clandestine meeting in Acapulco."

Ed: "That's right and now I feel like a spot on the pavement."

Giggle.

At 2PM, Powers said goodbye to Cambria and took a break for commercials. Ed's cohost Elizabeth, a former Dirty Debutante, joined us. A slim latina brunette, she features a ring through her lip.

Ed: "Luke, do you want to introduce your date?"

Luke: "No, she would die. She's absolutely Miss Anonymity."

Ed: "We should give her a Hustler gold card."

Liz: "For going out with you... Now he's going to get some because of you."

Luke: "Our first date. I show her a good time on the Ed Powers show."

Ed: "It must've been a culture shock to hear that."

Date: "Very little shocks me."

Date: [After the therapist gave me his name and number] I actually looked up Amazon.com to see what book he had written. All I knew that he was published..."

Ed: "How did you guys meet?"

Date: "A friend introduced us."

Ed: "Luke, do you want to keep it that way?"

Luke: "We share the same psycho-therapist... I've been in therapy for 14 months..."

Ed: "I wonder why."

Luke: "This is truly innovative all-encompassing therapy... As part of our therapist's true concern for us, she matched us up... We thought that traditionally a first date should be the Ed Powers show. Miss Anonymity did not what I wrote about... All she knew was that I had published a book. So she went to Amazon.com... And what a shock, A History of X..."

Liz: "Wait a minute. Your book is based on fact or fiction or Luke?"

Luke: "This is a non-fiction book."

Ed looking through the index: "How come I am not in it? It's the funniest thing... You put so many other people in it... Maybe I am glad I'm not in it."

Luke: "I didn't have final say over the book. I submitted about 700 pages. I assure you..."

Ed: "Am I a part of the 100 years of X? Am I not significant to the industry today? Then how come I am not in it?"

Luke: "You absolutely belong in there..."

Ed: "Did you read it?"

Luke: "No, I haven't read right through it."

Ed: "You wrote it and you didn't read it?"

Luke: "I have not read it since the book come out."

Ed: "And you mean to tell me that as much of an influence as I have had... You of all people did not write that in there."

Luke: "I wrote about you many pages... But things got cut out..."

Ed: "Why would you cut me out?"

Luke: "I didn't edit the book..."

Ed: "So I am insignificant?"

Luke: "You're significant. Ed, you've sold more tapes than anybody in adult video during the 1990s."

Ed: "I don't understand why I am not in it."

Luke: "You absolutely belong in there."

Liz: "Luke F-rd, you need to admit right here... Say Luke F-rd sucks."

Luke: "Luke F-rd sucks. I suck. I sinned. I'm floored..."

Ed: "I am not going to put anybody down for not being in the book but I really have to say that that is a true insult."

Liz: "Do you suck toes?"

Luke: "It's embarrassing to me... You belong in a history of sex in film..."

Liz: "What are you going to do about it?"

Ed: "Ed Wood is in here. Ed Wood..."

Luke: "As soon as the next edition comes in, there is going to be Ed Powers..."

Ed: "I think I could sue you. This is not a true history."

Luke: "On my website I have about 20-30 pages about Ed Powers..."

Ed: "That's nonsense... This is something significant... This gives me the incentive to write the true history of X. 100 Years of Sex in Film by a man who knows, not a man who doesn't know."

Liz makes farting sounds in the background and calls out my name.

Luke: "Well, if I have served as an incentive..."

Liz: "Luke, don't cut the cheese."

Ed: "I will know what is in the book and I guarantee you that I will sell more copies than you."

Luke: "I think you probably will."

Liz: "Luke, I am your father."

Ed: "And Luke, I will put you in my book."

After the commercial break, Ed comes back speaking in a Yiddish accent.

Ed: "He wrote a book, A History of X: 100 Years of Sex in Film, without putting Ed Powers in it. The nerve of the guy. He's embarrassed. He's turned all red. Three hours of us putting him down is not enough. We need to put this guy and persecute him to the fullest.

"Now your first date. What do you think of all the imperfections of this man Luke F-rdas we have pointed them out to you? Especially since he doesn't even know what is in the book. I am like significant in the industry. I don't have to say it. I am. What do you think about that?"

Date: "I don't know for sure that you are not in the book. Just because you are not in the index doesn't mean you are not in the book? They could've had a bad indexer [they did - Luke]."

Ed: "You mean that I might be in it but not...?"

Date: "I've had to index a book before and if you leave people out they get very upset."

Leonard: "That is just a sheer traversty [that Ed is not in the book]."

Ed: "I think that you deliberately left me out."

Luke: "I did not."

Date: "If I read you in the book and find you in it, will you have him back again?"

Ed: "There's nothing for me to apologize for..."

Date: "Then we'll make sure in the next printing that you are in the index."

Jeff phones: "How could he leave you out of the book? What is the point of writing a book without you in it?"

Liz: "There's definitely not a chapter written about you, which you deserve..."

Jeff: "That's like writing a book about basketball and leaving Michael Jordan out of it."

Luke: "I have about 30 pages on Ed Powers on l-keford.com."

Ed: "Who wants to read that site? It's all nonsense."

Liz: "It's all old information... And it is nonsense..."

Ron phones from Van Nuys: "I wanted to ask Luke if he was part of the Catholic Coalition?"

Luke: "No... I am religious Jew. I am not Christian. I am not Catholic though I have a great deal of sympathy with much of what the Christian religion stands for... And for Ralph Reed and the Christian Coalition... I think that the Catholic Church is a powerful force for good in this country. And I believe in the Bible. I believe that God calls us on to lead holy lives and to treat other people decently. And I believe that God judges us and that he will reward and punish us."

Ron: "It sounded like he had some issues... More or less, a lot of hate built up... He thought the sex thing was vile..."

Ed: "He has an agenda."

Luke: "I have hatred."

Gasps.

Luke: "I agree with the Psalmist, those of you who love God must hate evil. I would not describe pornography as evil... I think there are evil people in the pornography industry and if I cause them to lose sleep, that makes me happy. I think there are some real scum bags in the pornography industry as well as the cheese industry..."

Liz keeps talking over the top of my sermon.

Ron: "You said before that the whole sex thing causes people to commit cause crimes and to be negative and to be violent... These are the statements that people like the coalition groups make..."

Luke: "We share many similar values... The basic sex drive is just raw material, it can be used towards good or evil."

Liz: "What are you talking about?

"Is Luke all knowing? Is he like an aficionado of porn? How does he know about porn people smash smash..."

Luke: "I watch pornography."

Liz: "You don't know what you're talking about."

Ed: "You think a condom is distracting?"

Luke: "Yes I do."

Liz: "He's speaking for everyone in the industry here and you're not even in the industry."

Ed: "I maybe show ten percent of penetration so that it isn't very distracting. I think that seeing a penis go in and out of a vagina for five minutes is distracting enough from seeing the girl's face..."

Steve Neece from Reseda: "Luke F-rd, I've posted on your site many times. It is interesting that you brought up the Judeo-Christian ethic and pornography. It is my opinion that the Judeo-Christian ethics is responsible for most of the extreme pornography. The misogyny of Black, Hardcore, Jim Powers, I believe that is all part of the Judeo-Christian ethic."

Luke: "The people who subscribe to the Judeo-Christian ethic do not make pornography."

Steve: "But they are playing to the Judeo-Christian hatred of women and misogyny...tramp, whore, pig, etc..."

Luke: "The status of women is the highest in the world where Judaism and Christianity have flourished. The United States and Western Europe have provided the best opportunities for women anywhere in the world. I find your perspective interesting...but I believe that the most dramatic sexual revolution in history took place at Mount Sinai 3200 years ago where God said that men should confine their sexuality to women, particularly their wives. And this enabled the rise in the status of women... Because until this time men would typically turn towards other males, particularly boys, for the object of their eros. And the Torah, the revelation at Mount Sinai, and the command that men restrict themselves sexually to women...made western civilization possible."

Steve: "I disagree. The status of women in Roman times, around the time of Christ, was far higher among free people than it was among Christianity a thousand to 1500 years later when they were burning witches by the millions. And then you have the prayer of the orthodox Jewish man who thanks his maker every day that he was not made a woman."

Luke: "There's plenty that is troubling about the Jewish and Christian traditions, along with every other tradition. I'd like to go on record as opposing the burning of witches... It is one of the dark spots in the Western tradition..."

Steve: "The films of Damiano reak of Catholic guilt and hostility. Gregory Dark has tremendous Jewish misogynistic hatred of women [Dark is not Jewish] even though he is secular today, it was probably part of his upbringing."

Luke: "There's hatred of women in every tradition... I think fear of women is endemic to men. Even aside from religion, women are something fearful... They have a psychological sophistication and a rooting in reality that men tend not to have. We tend to feel awkward around women. They think differently from us."

Liz: "What is he talking about?"

Steve: "I've never felt afraid of women... The woman has an almost unlimited capacity for orgasm and sexual enjoyment that a man does not have."'

Liz: "Tell us what you're talking about."

Luke: "Women are significantly different from us and people who are different from us can be intimidating. Which culture does not have within it fear of women?"

Steve: "...But these three Western religions seem to lead the way... Though I would rather live in a secular society like Scandinavia...which has been secular for about a century..."

Luke: "The greatest enemies this century of Judaism and Christianity have been Nazism and Communism which have led to mass slaughter. I fear where there is not a sense of God. As Dostoevsky put it last century, where there is no God, all is permitted. I don't trust human beings who don't have a fear of a higher moral law."

Steve: "Have you ever read surveys that say that atheists have a lower crime rate than religious people? Atheists tend to be very law abiding."

Luke: "I would buy that."

Ed: "They might be nail biting."

Liz: "Or butt biting."

Luke: "Atheists tend to be few, to be highly intelligent and well educated..."

Ed: "I think it is time to change the subject... Let's talk about pingpong."

Liz: "Luke just wants to talk about men being driven towards other men."

About 15 minutes later...

Ed: "Luke, our relationship has not been all that bad... I've read things on the site [l-keford.com] but why comment because then he puts the comment on it..."

Liz: "Verbatim, huh?'

Ed: "Like the time I made a comment about Mike South and the Riley thing and they jumped in there... Those are two guys who love to see their names..."

Luke: "Mike South loves me because I've used his emails and used his name frequently on my site... Mike will always jump in there with an opinion on Ed Powers... I feed that because I will run pretty much any comment that anyone in the industry wants to make."

Ed: "Isn't it funny how they get really adversarial towards me?"

Luke: "No, I don't think it is funny because once you become as large a success as you are, and you've been in the industry for so long, and you must've had so many intimate relations with people, not just sexually, but the human being is very complex... And any time you're close with many people over time you are going to have a full range of emotional reactions..."

Ed: "I accept all ranges but that some of them are so animate..."

Luke: "Animated... And some people say such nasty things about you which surprises me because everything I know about you is that you are a complete gentleman...and one of the nicest persons in the business."

Ed: "It's all in there heads... Don't you think that Riley's comments are out there?"

Luke: "Pat Riley writes the X-rated Videotape Guides and he has a sharp pen."

Ed: "About many people. I don't feel singled out."

Luke: "In fact, Pat Riley lists Ed Powers videos as among the best."

Ed: "I think he writes a good book and I think he is important to the industry to be an historian... His comments, even though they are personal, don't affect me in a personal manner but I do respect them..."

Luke: "He makes many sharp comments in his X-rated Videotape Guides which hurt many people's feelings... He could not care less. He does not pretend to be a member of the adult industry or a supporter of the adult industry... He is a critic. He sits back and he judges and he has many interesting opinions. And I frequently correspond with Riley through email. Some of his opinions appall me and some of them shock me."

Liz: "Shock me too."

Ed: "This is Ed Powers Bedtime Stories... I want to thank Luke F-rd, Luke's date..."

Liz: "I want to thank Luke's date. She's funny. She said his place is a mess. It's real tiny. It's real small. That there are dirty socks and dirty underwear with skid marks..."

Ed: "Have you learned something tonight or are you going to not change? If you get hit with a big lawsuit..."

Luke: "And they could take future earnings and I believe that one day I will have some assets..."

Liz laughs.

Ed: "I hope you get some assets tonight."

Luke: "I've done some questionable..."

Liz: "Any of them involve lascivious behavior?"

I.M. Fletcher writes Luke: You've done all the mea culpas and all, you've retracted, you've said you've lied...All of this despite the fact that you've stated more than several times that you were making s--- up for purely satirical purposes. People have believed you in the past, though who in their right mind would believe that the entire stable of contract girls Vivid has contracted AIDS? That a publishing group actually would have decided to print Barely Pubescent in this day and age?

I read your site on a daily basis, and I take everything I read with a canister of salt...More telling for me is the way that people respond to what you're writing, from Nice Jewish Girl's self-righteousness to Rob (I forget his last name)'s threats to break your nose, Bianca Trump's hatred of Brandy Alexander to the occasional diatribe against porner X. All of these were capped by the amount of sensitivity expressed by makers of porn on what are absolutely ridiculous charges.

Whatever, one of the things established in the transcripts is that the targets of your umbrage got to say, "He's lying."

Another thing that was established over the weekend is that if you say up front, on the article itself, that what you're doing is intended as satire, you can get away with murder. May Paul Cambria himself correct me now, but that is what is constantly being said over and over on the transcripts. So f--- 'em. f--- Vivid when they say not to run any future items about their owner, talent and staff that aren't truly factual, and then ask you to further rub your own nose in the s--- by "running the transcript for 30 days." According to their own lawyer you can say what you want as long as you preface it with "For satirical purposes only."

'smatterofact: FOR SATIRICAL PURPOSES ONLY:

I, I.M. Fletcher, contracted several cases of the clap, herpes, AIDS, and e-coli from Stephen Hirscht. Steve "Sweetie" has been the only man I've loved for 'lo these last 18 months, though I know he sleeps around. He has told me on several occasions that he "plays it safe...especially with the talent." When confronted with the results of my blood test, Stevie said, and I quote: "I must have gotten it from when Janine s----f---ed me. And then made me rub the rest on my body. Whatever was left I ate. Guess I didn't shower as well as I had thought." ------------------

Look, this isn't a case of a fan fawning over a celebrity. Quite frankly, I disagree with some of the things you've said in the past, and some of what you do. This whole First Amendment thing has gone WAY over the f---ing line. They had a point, they made it, then they won, by way of bluster and bullying. That should f---ing be enough.

Fred writes: My thoughts are as follows. I preface my thoughts by saying that I am not a libel attorney, so I have no expertise in that area. First, if I were going to debate someone on radio, I would probably do several things.

First, I would make a list of each of the topics likely to come up during the debate. Second, I would figure out ahead of time how I would address each of those topics. Third, I would get a "sparring partner" to do a dry run, and to try to get a handle on where things might go awry.

It was pretty clear ahead of time that a big part of the debate would pertain to libel issues. I would have researched the various rules regarding libel law ahead of time. For example, I do not know whether one needs to have an explicit statement that something is or is not satire in order to insulate you from a claim of libel. It would be worth knowing the answer to that ahead of time.

Perhaps you should have explicitly asked Cambria whether he thinks one needs to have an explicit statement that something is satire. Find out from Cambria, during the debate, what he thinks the rule is. For example, does Cambria really think that someone could sue Jay Leno if Leno told a joke about that person without prefacing the joke with a disclaimer that it was satire? I'm not a libel lawyer, but I kind of doubt it. I suspect that the issue is whether the listening audience would simply know that something was satire. Does Cambria think the rule is otherwise? Why does he think that? What are his sources?

There are things one can say that would be a major problem if you were ever sued for libel. If you are sued for libel, a transcript of the debate (or perhaps a recording of the debate) might be read to a jury. Some of your remarks might be quite harmful to you. Again, I am not a libel attorney, so I don't know the details about what is or is not bad. However, I would find out ahead of time what you should or should not say.

Cambria's questions read like an attorney's cross examination, seeking to elicit from you certain admissions to waive in front of a jury. That was very clear to me.

I would not be inclined to take a dive in a debate. If I deserve to lose an argument, I would not engage in that argument on radio. If I am entitled to do something, and I do it, and I am called to task for it, I would defend what I have done. If I later decide that I was in error, and I was not entitled to do it, I would not have myself flagelated on a radio station because of it. I would simply decide not to do it again. I might apologize if that were the appropriate thing to do, but I would not engage in self-flagelation. Self-flagelation on radio may cause people to consider your web site perhaps a little less worth reading. Your readership is an asset. Preserve it. Having said all that, please note that the foregoing is not to be relied on as legal advice. If you have legal questions, contact an attorney. I take no responsibility as to whether any of the foregoing is true, accurate, or makes any sense whatsoever.

From www.geneross.com: "Ironically, on the 25th anniversary of Richard Nixon leaving office for having lied to the American people, Luke F-rd admitted essentially the same thing on the Ed Powers Show this past Saturday night. Ford, using the satire defense, debated criminal attorney Paul Cambria [Cambria was on the phone] on a number of issues related to items Ford has posted on his website in recent weeks about Vivid Video. In an incredibly great four hours of radio, Ford, who admitted to talking to the FBI on a number of occasions, also admitted that he fudged royally on items posted on his site, the most egregious being that Vivid contract girls have AIDS."

Mike writes Luke: "Riotous, my friend. I'm not even sure if it's true, except for the fact that I don't think you would really go to the trouble of writing out a scripted conversation of that length. At any rate, being a "reasonable person," it seems that I must make the point to you (and anyone you wish to copy this e-mail to) that I don't take 90% of what you write without a grain of salt to help it down. As for the specific lines that Paul quoted, let's just say that it would be easier for me to believe the validity and truthfulness of the Onion (an online newsrag) than what you wrote on those occasions. Keep up the good work. regards, mike P.S. - next time you do one of these debates, bring your balls with you. NO ONE should take the beating you took without fighting back at least a little bit."

Brian: "Your site has turned to crap. You were once a respected journalist of the industry. Now, I don't know what you call yourself. A comedian wannabe? And you have a book out that I can't see ever wanting to purchase, simply because it could possibly be full of your attempt at satirical writing."

Prometheus Books porn critic Pat Riley writes Luke:

Nothing here should be taken as a approval or endorsement of your satirical "news" on your website. Personally, I think these pieces are childish and serve no purpose other than to irritate and alienate the targeted people. Their humor level is somewhere around Howard Stern's farting contests.

However, the overreaction by Vivid is ridiculous and makes one think that there's another scab somewhere that they don't want scratched. Either that or Hirsch thinks that any publicity is good publicity and having a supposed high-priced lawyer debate you will attract attention.

As to Cambria I can't believe any serious lawyer would stoop to debating in public a scum-of-the-earth (my inference) libeler (their assertion) such as yourself. If he was serious about the matter he'd be doing all his debating in court. As to the assertion that it's not satire because it's not labeled as such, let's not be ridiculous. The test I believe is, would a reasonable person, taking the statements in context, consider them as satire or as truth; the labeling just adds emphasis. A person would have to be totally moronic to believe that all the Vivid girls have AIDS or that they're all working at the Bunny ranch. The Vivid girls? Come on. A prissier lot in the industry would be hard to find.

But even if they proved libel, just what damages do they think they could prove? What actual harm has been caused? I can just see Cambria producing Joe Sixpack, good family man from Buttf---, UT to say, "I didn't buy a Vivid movie because I thought the girls had AIDS and it turned me off." "Now what did you say your address was, Mr. Sixpack?" "How many porno movies do you rent/buy each week, Mr. Sixpack?" Yeah, right. Lots of luck proving damages!

Or maybe they will try the tack that you've damaged the girls' reputations. "Just how many guys have you taken up the asshole on video, Miss Vivid Princess?" What reputation? Judging from the current AVN, whoring at the Bunny Ranch seems to be quite the "in" thing, anyway. Not that it's likely to ever come to it but I'd be a little careful about the idea that you're "judgement proof" because you don't have any assets. A tort (I believe libel is a tort) judgement will survive bankruptcy meaning that if you were to have a judgment against you it would be hanging around your neck for the rest of your life. IOW if you ever get money it goes to the judgement creditor. Not a good thing.

Johnny writes: "Just wanted to say that I got to hear part of the show on Sun morning. It was fantastic radio, and by far the best show Ed has ever done. You really took a lot of heat, and took it like a man. You didn't shirk away from the pummeling you were getting from all sides. The cards were horribly stacked against you. Few other people would have had the balls to show up. My only regret is that you weren't less repentant than you seemed to be on the show. You should have had some friends there to be there for you, becuase Ed was anything but impartial. He was a frigging jerk, if you ask me. Talk about being on a high horse! What an ass! The thing is, you're RIGHT about what you say about the people in the porn biz. They just don't want anybody to say it. About the satire, sometimes I haven't even known it was satire, or wasn't sure if it was or not. You really do need to put some sort of disclaimer because they most definately will sue you , sooner or later, and you don't want to have your wages garnished for a hundred years to pay those bastards off. I DO love the fact that you immediately ran some more inflammatory material on the site today. hehehe3ehehhe I 'm glad to see that you didn't let anything that happened change your actions. God Ed is so self-righteous! He really believes he's so great! He's just another dope-addled pornographer, dime a dozen. Anyway, keep it up, Luke, but watch your ass. Don't want to see you have to cough up any dough to these guys."

Darkvision writes: "I was very surprised to hear you not respond to Ed's callers who literally threatened your life! You should NEVER take those kind of remarks lightly. Some of those assholes needed to be put in their place and you never said a word! I don't understand it Luke, people are out to destroy you and you seem to be taking it lying down."

LAJedi: aie carumba, you are nuts Luzdedos1: :) LAJedi: are you feeling ok? maybe a little scared and confused? Luzdedos1: fine LAJedi: your writing seems to indicate you are a little nuts right now LAJedi: alot of chjaotic energy Luzdedos1: hmm, i try to create an exciting site LAJedi: well then call it a rousing success.

Email from www.kaylaprice.com: "I heard you on the Conway and Steckler Show and also the Ed Powers Show the other days. I really enjoyed both the programs while you were on them. You sounded very sexy so I checked out your site. I enjoyed the pictures of you and the stuff you wrote. Everything seems quite obvious that it is satire or fiction. I don't get why people are angry with you about what you write."

Mark posts to alt.cult_movies.erotica: "Hey Luke, Why do you hide behind that fake name Luzdedos? Do you actually think you're fooling anyone? Oh, I forgot, you live in a tabloid world! Get a REAL job f---hole! Mark "my word!" Brandy the Atheist's #1 Defender I fear no evil for I am evil!"

Brandy replies: "Get a clue, you loser. He doesn't hide behind anything. All of his messages are signed as Luke F-rd. (Cripes, Mark's such an idiot I'm defending Luke to him. What's the world coming to?)"

Michka: "I generally find Luke's self-importance in his posts hurt his credibility (as if a terminal cancer patient like Luke's credibility can be knocked any lower). The fact that he revels in blatant falsehood and occasionally the more subtle omissions of truth pretty much guarantees that anyone who prefers truth in jounalism will a) not accept Luke F-rd as being a journalist. b) not believe a word he says."

Arch Stanton: "Luke is an enigma. Things I like about him: 1) He upsets the self righteous assholes who run the industry. 2) Has helped expose the sleazy underbelly of the industry from top to bottom. Things I don't like: 1) Real names list. No valid reason or purpose to print it. 2) Prints anything at all seemingly without regard to the reliability of a source. But how can you not root for the guy when he goes toe to toe with Ed Powers or bigwig Vivid. You have to question his sanity by taking on the mafia. He's either got very big balls or is missing half the deck. Sure he's self-absorbed but he admits it. His site is his personal diary for all to see. I can remain objective in my analysis because I've never been affected (e?) by his lack of standards. But I am sure if he printed something of a false nature that hurt me or my family then well I'm certain he'd lose any respect that I have for him and would become my enemy. But he'd have to dig deep as he doesn't know who I am."

Luke: "Hey Arch, is it true that you have AIDS?"

Mike: "Good morning Luke: Heard the debate on the Ed Powers Show this past week-end and I thought it was good and very informative on all counts. I am a true fan of Ed Powers and he has always had and still does have a good show. I feel that this past week-end was one of his best shows. The debate on the given issue was equal and had good balance for all involved to You, Paul, Ed and the callers. Also the short time that I have known about you and your site, when I have send you e-mail you have responded back with a good and informative reply. I just bought your book (A History of X) and it looks like a good read. What I so far like about your book is that it gives you information about the Adult Industry more than just the fantasy that most individuals see in both the videos, movies, and trade papers and magazines. It takes you into the reality of the Industry and the outcome of the Industry. Now Ed Powers was right, I wish you would have mentioned him in the book so far I have not seen his name mentioned. He has in my opinion the best videos and related items out there."

Paul writes: "I am trying to find information on Busty Belle. She is on the cover of Nov 89 issue of Gent magazine. I want to know if she has a fan club, what movies she was in, What other magazines she appeared in and any personal information you have on her. I met her in Ontario Canada back in 1988 and thought she was great. Does she still do movies?"

"Where is Kathy Willets," asks XXX. "And why isn't she on your website? We both know she has sex with her fans at the Moonlight Bunny Ranch. But she's an old lady now, so who cares. How about a THEN and NOW photo of Kathy to show the aging face of porn? And whatever happened to all those great home videos? I guess they were confiscated, and won't be available for public release until the year 2050, too late to do either of us any good. Why not press for the public release of these tapes now under the Freedom of Information Act and get your name in the news?

"This would be a good addition to your Subjects Index: LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR: Why does porn always gravitate to debauchery?

"Ron Jeremy added attraction. The guy sucks his own dick.......for all the world to see. Now that's justice!! Your awe for this very intelligent man was palpable. But you should have pressed harder: Has he ever f---ed himself in the ass, or tried to? Has he ever f---ed himself in the ass while sucking his own dick? WE BOTH KNOW HE WOULD IF HE COULD. This man thinks from his little head, and on that count, I agree with you, he's a genius! Stop admiring this guy as your Jewish buddy, he's a disgusting piece of trash.

"New terms for your Subjects glossary: EMOTIONALLY UNAVAILABLE: The women of the porn industry are completely inaccessible emotionally, and yet the industry is funded entirely by an audience of men who don't care whether their women feel anything or not! This may seem obvious to us, but it's really a quite subtle disease. Since the men don't have any concept of women's emotions, they don't realize anything's missing! They are blissfully blind to the reality that THE WOMEN SIMPLY AREN'T INTERESTED IN THEM. And so, they are completely satisfied, wasting both their time and resources on pornography, with no prospect of anything in return. Dumb!!!! THE LESBIAN ANGLE: It's hot, and it sells. Male porn consumers love bisexuality in their women. Why? I leave that to the experts. I don't understand. Can you explain this male fascination with bisexual women? Why do men like to see women having sex with other women? This is one of the essential and pervasive mysteries of porn.

MASTURBATION isn't the point of pornography. (Except for the porn consumer.) The point of pornography is to transfer the money in your bank account to the pornographers, as much and as fast as possible!!!! Subtle difference, I agree, but an important one! I am your buddy, Luke, so hear me out. Your attacks will have far more punch if you ask "Who are my target audiences?" Pornographers, porno actors, the porn consumer? Or something for everybody? Really, Luke, WHO do you believe you are writing for? I don't know, do you?

Bibliography for the above comments (I'd like you to see a sample bibliography, similar to the one in your book, so you get the point):
1....Something I overheard Daddy say while screwing a call girl when I was six.
2....Sentence on a porn video box read backwards.
3....A fantasy I had while masturbating on my back.
4....An ad in Porn Magazine, 2nd edition
5...What classmate Jimmy told me he saw at the church picnic.

GET IT????? I was going to buy your book---I requested it at 2 bookstores here in Atlanta. But the review on Amazon.com killed it for me. And they were right, the references were the funniest!!! They were absolutely HILARIOUS. Like most people, I just read your book for the footnotes, to see who was saying what about whom! Good job there, but it shouldn't have been so damn funny! They got it right Luke: NO SCHOLARSHIP whatsover!!!!! You're an idiot, but I'll always be your fan!

Your book really took a beating because of its lack of scholarship. The attack was prompted by your silly use of footnotes. Scholars thought you were trying to be scholarly. They failed to realize your purpose in using footnotes was to avoid lawsuits. You were quoting others to avoid lawsuits for slander and libel. You really need to point this up in your introductory remarks next time, and let your readership know you that the reason you are footnoting is so you can then blame your quotes on other people for saying the nasty things you can't say yourself. Also, the title should have been "A POPULAR HISTORY OF X" or even "The popular mythology of X" which would also have steered you clear of attacks. You aren't a documentarian or journalist, and don't claim to be--you're a gossip columnist as you make very clear on your website. Make this more clear next time and you'll avoid the attacks.

Ben Siegel writes GeneRoss.com: "Actually, I'm responding to your little item ... I look at your site, you crusading little plagiarist, you. You missed my point, which is that Richard Johnson didn't copy what you wrote, you ended up copying what his people wrote, practically word for word. In fact, you've done it before, with stuff from the San Francisco Chronicle and Examiner. I know that because I contribute to those papers and noticed the remarkable similarities. Let's see you run this..."

Pornbusters For Jesus

Publisher Alan Miles of www.sin-city.net writes: Re: Your statements to Conway and Steckler I've been in the porn business since 1973, am a nice guy married to a wonderfully nice woman and we don't use drugs, have never killed anyone and don't sexually abuse each other or anyone else. People in this country is getting really tired of the "history of puritanism" and long for a day when we could relax our attitudes toward sex and things sensual in this country, as is the case in much of Europe.

The only thing decadent about American society is the horrible existance of religious cults that our Constitution allows exist, most of the time at taxpayer expense. People that "make pornography (may) not be members of the Religious Right, but members of the Religious Right are consumers of pornography big time. Do you know how to spell hypocrisy? And there are more Jesus-freaks that enjoy deviant sex and pornography than the church (or synagogue) would have you believe.

And by your own admission, you actually like Falwell and Robertson? Are you just drawn to mentally-challenged people? Falwell is a phony and makes his money by deceiving his followers. His ministry is broke and membership is dwindling. Robertson has no credibility at all with any sound, thinking person. These two, and their buddies (James Dobson, Donald Wildmon, Gary Bauer and a host of other fakers), are the biggest reason the Republican party will continue to fall apart, dwindle and die. And they hate Jews, guy. They love and profit from their "affiliation" with and promotion of Jesus as their savior, never acknowleging in the first place that he was a Jew! How can you hate Jews and love Jesus? Geeesh. Your life is full of holes Luke.

You say the "entertainment business has a disproportionate number of homosexuals," and the religious fanatics say just the opposite --- that the entertainment business has a disproportionate number of Jews. I rarely attack people, but you are making it hard for me to not attack you and your continuing inane drivel. You need to find a new line of work -- something different to "write" about to support your weird and twisted beliefs in and about things sexual. You might trade in your badge for something a little less stressful. The rigors of being a cop involved in a sting-operation have taken their toll. Slow down and consider your options. Your buddy, Pat Robertson, could probably use you on his team for his next presidential bid. Just think of it..... pornbusterforjesus.com. You wouldn't get any "hits" but think about how tranquil your life would be. Oh, and stay away from professional hockey games. Have a nice weekend!

Babylon Blue Review

Ultradamno writes on RAME: This is the second book from Creation (www.creationbooks.com) that I've reviewed on this NG (the first was Killing For Culture). Creation Books is a British publisher and this book, like the other I've noted, is part of their "cinema collection" series of critical genre studies that all have a feel of being installments in a set or editions of a journal (like say Granta) rather than standalone works. Each book in this series focuses on some marginalized, cultish, edgy, or otherwise aggressively obscure genre. Given this publisher's penchant for difficult subject matter (snuff, freak films, gore, Manson, etc.) it was only a matter of time before they got around to that most politically incorrect form of videotape & celluloid; porn.

David Flint seems an odd choice of an author for this project, given this publisher's aforementioned love of shock aesthetics. He's a champion of glossy, booji-friendly and often clinically chilly Michael Ninn and Antonio Passolini movies (going so far as to indicate his belief that they are a return to the filmmaking values of porn's golden age) and openly fretting for the health and safety of the adult film industry from the threat of Rob Black and his misogynist movies (all while acknowledging the rape themes depicted in Forced Entry are feeble compared to those in many beloved golden age classics). None of which makes this a bad book, I know many of you are inclined to agree with these sentiments, but it seems out of character for an example of this series to echo statements I've read in Premiere magazine.

The book starts with a boilerplate rundown of the classic exploitation fare that immediately preceded the porn era. Some movies looked at in this chapter include nudie cuties such as Russ Meyer's The Immoral Mr. Teas and Hershell Gordon Lewis & David F. Friedman's The Adventures of Lucky Pierre. Moving on to the roughies, where again Russ Meyer leads the pack with Lorna, Motorpsycho, etc., also discussed in this vein are the works of Joe Sarno, Joseph Mawra and Michael & Roberta Findlay. Later sixties detritus discussed in this chapter include Kenneth Anger's Scorpio Rising, the Warhol & Morrissey films both of which yield some discussion of the legal issues concerning obscenity pertaining to their specific court battles and their contribution to the MPAA creation of the X rating, as does Vadim's And God Created Woman and I Am Curious, Yellow which lands us at the feet of the first hardcore films, Alex DeRenzy's Pornography In Denmark, Bill Osco's Hollywood Blue, Electrosex 75, and finally, we are treated to a discussion which leaves unclear whether or not any explicit material exists which was cut from Flesh Gordon.

This is followed by a far too brief interview with the legendary David F. Friedman. He talks about H.G Lewis, Irving Klaw, Babb & Sonney and expresses his usual irritation with the hardcore racket.

The next two chapters take us from 1972 up to the rise of videotape. This is really beginner material throughout though the occasional nice piece of trivia does make it's way into the text. Beyond Deep Throat is the first of the two and zeroes in exclusively on Linda Lovelace, Marilyn Chambers and the directors who shot them. The second is called The Golden Age and it runs down the most significant points on the time line. No major surprises here although Rinse Dream recieves more notice than usual, probably due to the taste of the author, but it's nice to see. I liked the fact that having identified Cafe Flesh star Pia Snow as being one in the same as scream queen Michelle Bauer he (or his editor) include a reproduction of the poster for Fred Olen Ray's Hollywood Chainsaw Hookers as if to say 'see? it's her! told you so!' There are also some discussions and blow by blows of films difficult to find uncut today such as Babyface, Femmes De Sade and Waterpower.

Next up is an all too brief chapter on Euro Porn. To my delight, little of this repeats what is covered in the excellent book on Europe's sexhorror movies of the sixties and seventies, Immoral Tales, although a lengthy analysis of Walerian Borowczyk's film of the same name is included with some especially good pictures. Intriguing descriptions of Ai No Corrida/In The Realm Of The Senses and Lasse Braun's Sensations sandwich a discussion of Last Tango In Paris and it's attendant legal brouhaha, nazi sexploitation films, Joe D'amato, a stock rundown of Caligula and Italian pornstars turned politicians Cicciolina and Moana Pozzi.

Finally, only a paragraph dedicated to Private Films, although Flint notes:

>Private's tapes have proved remarkably >popular in America, and US director's >like Nic Cramer have made their way to >Europe to shoot ambitious projects like >Apocalypse Climax for the Scandinavian >company. Isn't Nic Cramer is Swedish? Maybe he is in light of this nugget which appears in the following paragraph which illustrates how difficult it can be to pin down who's who and what's what in the adult film industry: >Also hailing from Holland is Helen Duval >- the real Helen Duval, that is. Confusion >reigns about the name which is >considered a generic character name as >well as the performer. Germany has it's >own Helen Duval, played by Monique >Covet (who, just to add to the confusion, >is French). However, it is the Dutch >Helen who is the original...

The next chapter is, for me, the most interesting if only for the fact it is a subject about which so little has ever been written; the UK porn industry. To whatever extent such a thing can be said to exist. Much of this chapter deals with the evidently quite capricious legal status to which British pornmakers are subjected. Two filmmakers whose careers were eventually halted altogether by this volatile justice system have their works examined in these pages. One is John Lindsay, who is already my all-time favorite director, even though I've never seen one of his movies, just for the fact one of his titles is Jolly Hocky Sticks (anyone who would name a porn movie THAT is OK by me) and the other is Mike Freeman, his titles are a lot more prosaic but he was much scrappier, suffering a couple of jail stretches before resorting to softcore. Boy, looking over this chapter I'm amazed how little of this stuff seems to have filtered over the water. It's not until the end when we hit Vinny Curren's Public Places and the videos of Ben Dover that I start to feel any twinges of recognition. Which, again, probably has more than a little to do with that uncertain state of censorship and enforcement that is the order of the day in Great Britain.

This chapter is added to with a brief interview with Lindsay Honey (AKA Ben Dover) who discusses working for John "Buttman" Stagliano, makes an almost Jerry Butler worthy claim of being driven from mainstream work at the BBC by the "gay mafia" (the male porn performer equivalent to the old yarn about being gang raped by a crew of black thugs so often pedalled by the ladies in porn), talks about working for Private Film and the music buisness. A relatively interesting interview.

The Decline and Fall of the Adult Movie is a very brief chapter dealing with the ascent of video and it's effect on the porn industry. Here you'll find discussions of the attacks on porn from both the right and left, pedestrian accounts of the Traci Lords fiasco, Chuck Vincent's death of AIDS and the industry reaction to the virus (a topic which recurs in the next chapter), the Shauna Lynn suicide and closes with praises in favor of Gregory Dark and...VCA and Vivid? Yep:

>Although responsible for a fair >number of video stinkers, it's interesting >to note that VCA and Vivid have also led >the way in the adult film revival of the >nineties. Having consolidated their >position financially, legally (and, you >might argue morally)...

An interview with Jane Hamilton (AKA Veronica Hart) follows and it seems to me Mr. Flint may be a little too smitten with this particular interviewee to be as effective in conducting this Q &A as might someone a little less eager to accomodate. Case in point, Ms. Hamilton is allowed nearly half of the interview to scramble to think up new things to plug. It's too bad, because when she's not trying to get us to rent The Wrong Snatch or Shock she has some interesting anecdotes about working on the sets of different films as well as her experiences breaking into the buisness to tell and touching and insightful observations about people like Chuck Vincent and Robert McCallum. Flint blew a golden opportunity by not pulling in the reins here, in my eyes.

The New Porn Generation is the name of the penultimate chapter and it is here, after a look at Andrew Blake's work that Flint's love of Michael Ninn, which has been clearly established earlier in the book, begins to take on an almost delusional air: >Jon Dough is amazing in the lead role-he >seems every bit the barely contained >madman. Jeanna Fine is Simply >stunning; her one dialogue scene is >Academy Award material!

Although he notes that Shock is superior to Latex (to which the quote above is referring) he does calm down a bit and even seems apologetically critical when New Wave Hookers 5 and Decadence are on the table for dissection. Next is an overview of John Leslie's work wherein I was pleased to see at least a tip of the hat to his post VCA work in the form of Dog Walker and Fresh Meat but the preferred product placement here is to Curse Of The Catwoman and Chameleons: Not The Sequel (in both cases the original is dismissed as inferior). To go through much more in this long chapter would take up far to much time in an already overlong review. Suffice to say Flint looks at most of the US porn directors and with the exception of a few specialty genres (gangbangs, oldies, fatties, dwarfs etc.) and Rob Black he finds the state of the porn industry to be healthy with a sunny future ahead.

Things wind down with one last interview, this time with director, writer and producer Antonio Passolini who, for my money is the most interesting interogatee in the book. He talks about working with Michael Ninn, making the leap from writing and producing to directing but what I found most interesting were his comments about working interference with the directors, in the capacity as producer, for VCA, and the details of the conflict that lead to John Leslie leaving the company. His split with Ninn (also mentioned cryptically in the Hamilton interview) is hinted at being acrimonious but no details are divulged.

Overall, it's hard for me to recommend Babylon Blue without some reservations, and not just those pertaining to matters of taste, for as much as I may disagree with what he's written Flint never actually annoys with his opinions, which is not uncommon for books from this publisher, concerned as they are with delineating an bird's eye view of a specific genre. But for the asking price ($22.95 US Amazon/Buy/Barnes & Noble/Last Gasp etc all sell it for around $15-$16) it feels a bit lite to me. On the other hand, there is alot about this book that appeals, for instance, the fact that so few other books that address the issue of porn concern themselves at all with the work (as opposed to the 'insider view of all the decadence' approach or the polemic screed) the way this one does, also the chapters on European and UK porn are both worthwhile and of particular merit. Grab it if you can get a good deal Publisher: Creation Books 188 pp. Illus. Heavily 8pp. in color Index of titles Bibliography Rating (1-10 scale): 6.5