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Sunday, August 8th, 1999

Part Two of Cambria Debate Part Three

Contract Girls Have AIDS

l-keford.com has learned exclusively that all 69 contract girls of Anal Video, which won 37 awards at the last AVN banquet in Las Vegas in January, caught AIDS in the last 24 hours and died. We will preempt our regularly scheduled programming throughout the day for breaking news bulletins.

Vice President of Adult Video News (AVN), Gene Ross, released this statement: "I am shocked and saddened by this news. It strikes me particularly hard as 17 of these actresses were delivered to me on a plate last year in exchange for good reviews."

In a show of sympathy, contract girls from all walks of life, from Wall Street to Hollywood, Monday called newsconferences to announce that they too have AIDS. Said the Reverend Jesse Jackson, "this week, all compassionate caring human beings have voluntarily contracted spiritual AIDS as a way of showing empathy."

Dangerman writes: "Well, OK, so while every adult (as people state when they enter your site) capable of somewhat independent thinking (I think that can be expected from ADULTS) can see that the above fabrication makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and may possibly be an abysmal attempt at parody or humor then [that] means (according to Paul The Lawyer [Cambria]) that unless it's clearly labeled as such, any real life person or organization mentioned in it can basically sue your pants off? In other words: you have to presume that each and every visitor to your site represents the lowest common denominator and treat them as such (to explain everything, preferrably with pictograms I assume)?"

Meanwhile, on Sunday morning's Ed Powers show on KLSX, FM 97.1, AVN publisher Paul Fishbein, wearing a tasteful purple chiffon gown that accentuated all his curves, announced that he's starting a new magazine called "Underage Pussy" which will feature hardcore and graphic photos of puppy dog and pussy cat genitalia as well as never before published photos of interspecies sex.

"Who's to say that a three month old Labrador's split beaver is any less valid a form of free speech than a Jane Austen novel," Fishbein told a surprised Powers.

Luke F-rd claims that sales rankings in the new "Underage Pussy" were rigged in exchange for soft and sloppy kisses delivered to Fishbein's left hand by cute Australian sheep dogs.

The New York Times reports: "Several young women have emerged to accuse Gloria Trevi, Mexico's most famous rock star, of luring them and dozens of other girls into an itinerant cult of pop music and abusive sex over the last decade." Paul Fishbein was mentioned neither in the article nor in the police reports.

Regarding the Jones Beach stop of the Lilith Fair, Monday's Times says: "That challenge is to express women's experience powerfully while moving beyond gender stereotypes. The driving beat, the chance to yell and the down-and-dirty mood that rock cultivates offered Ms. Crow and Ms. Hynde access to emotions, like anger and sexual excitement, that more genteel songwriters cannot so easily grasp, and their talent for ballads let them show softness, too." Matt "Tinky Winky" Zane was not mentioned in the article.

Buck Adams Blows Conway & Steckler

Big Whopper writes: "I heard that porn star Buck Adams - performs fellatio on 2 guys in back of a van in Van Nuys shopping center parking lot in exchange for 10 grams of crack. And guess who the two guys were? Tim Conway Jr. and Doug Steckler of KLSX radio, FM 97.1, the FM Talk Station. And according to LaRouche the cocaine was supplied by the Queen of England."

Luke: "I want to completely distance myself from that charge. I see no accompanying evidence."

Once Upon a Time

Paul Cambria Kicks Luke's Ass

Vivid Video attorney Paul Cambria kicked my ass on two radio show debates Saturday night - Sunday morning. He suggested that I lead my site with the phrase "once upon a time." I agreed.

Luke Debates Paul Cambria (audio file) Part Two (8/7/99)

Lee writes Luke: "I heard you on Ed Powers' Show. I was more than a little surprised that, in light of the letter sent to, you would make the statements that you did. I am an attorney, and from what I heard, you have said a lot that will serve to hang you! I know that you have said that you will publish a verbatim transcript of the appearance, however, you really should talk to an attorney before you do. Unless the so called debate was a put on, I don't think you are taking the potential threat seriously enough. In any event, it's obviously your life and your decision, but based upon what I heard, you have some real exposure."

I will run exhaustive transcripts of the shows. I am inserting a * to indicate when I get interrupted. Cambria did it to me constantly. Throughout our discussion he would cut me off, berate me, ask me a question, and when I was answering it, he'd interrupt again and go off. I did not get to make one statement longer than two sentences throughout the entire KFI interview and the first hour or so of Ed Powers show without Cambria interrupting and overriding me. And he's a First Amendment attorney who's dedicated his life to protecting free speech, yet most every time (until I protested an hour or so into the KLSX show), when I developed a point, Cambria would talk over me.

My therapist set me up with a nice Jewish girl, Miss Anonymous, who accompanied me (our first date) to KFI AM 640 at 8:30 PM Saturday night for my 9PM appearance on the Wayne Resnick Show.

Miss Anonymous writes Sunday at 12:30 PM: "Cute, you forgot to mention cute. I am a nice, CUTE, Jewish girl. Thanks for the mention and a most memorable and interesting first date. I learned much about you and, I think, saw some small part of your soul. The one that listens to people, can feel their discomfort and ponder upon the many good points that were made by Paul Cambria and others.

"[Here's] what a friend wrote to me: I listened last night. Extremely peculiar, Don't get too attached, it looks like he might get rubbed out one of these days. I'll see you soon."

Luke: "Yeah baby, and you have a great rack."

Here's some background: Vivid Video Herald Fahringer

Host Wayne Resnick (I also appeared on his show January 30th): "Speaking of saying things about other people and pissing other people off... Oh boy. Ok everybody, let's hold on tight here. In the studio, troublemaker extraordinaire Luke F-rd. Welcome back to the program. You have your website l-keford.com and you report on what is going on in the world of adult entertainment. And you piss everybody off. Is that fair to say?"

Luke: "That is correct. The most hated man in the world of pornography."

Wayne: "And you do have a book out, A History of X: 100 Years of Sex in Film. Shouldn't it be sex on film? I see two people humping and they're covered in 35mm stock. You have pissed off a lot of people including the gentleman on line eight... Attorney Paul Cambria for the Vivid Video company.

"Here's what I understand... I understand that you have a problem with some things that Luke put on his site and the two of you have agreed to debate these problems live on the air. We are acting only as a conduit for the two of you to hash out your difference. We are not taking any responsibility for anything that Luke says tonight. In other words, we don't know if anything he says is true or not... Or what his sources are or if he knows what the hell he's talking about... We don't know any of that. And you're agreeing that we all here are indemnified against anything he says. Isn't that right? You are not going to hold us responsible?"

Paul: "Clearly not, unless he repeats his libels, we'll deal with it... Not necessarily against you fellows, but with regard to him."

Wayne: "I understand. He's putting his ass on the line. We're only giving you guys a forum. There's only one ground rule. You guys know a lot about all this stuff. And you guys know a lot about the porno industry. If at any point you guys, for example, mention somebody without explaining who that person is, or say something that I don't understand, I am going to butt in... I am going to have a code word... FRENCH TICKLER.

"If I say French Tickler, whoever is talking needs to stop talking and we will clarify what is being said... And then we'll continue.

"Paul, why don't you start. We know that Luke has his website and everybody goes and reads his website. What's your problem generally with Luke and specifically with Luke?"

Paul: "I've spent a large portion of my legal career defending the First Amendment... Of course, I would never defend someone's right to abuse the First Amendment. And what we have here is this: I've represented Vivid Video for a long time and Luke took it upon himself to make a false statement which he knew was false.

"He said that the Vivid Girls, the contract girls who work for Vivid Video, had AIDS. There wasn't any disclaimer or abashed pretension that he was kidding around or some type of satire. He just laid it out there as a fact. And he knows it is not a fact and he clearly has no basis to say it. Basically, he revels in the fact that he can get on his website and make blatantly malicious false statements and then apparently feel that he is covered in the mantel of the First Amendment and that he is untouchable.

"When I sent him a letter indicating to him that we were looking this over... That we had it under advisement to determine whether or not he was worth suing... He of course asked me a while back if he could interview me. I said, as long as I can interview you, you can interview me. And that's the reason why I am here."

Wayne: "Well, why don't you interview him?"

Paul: "Luke, let's start off with this... You made this statement that the Vivid Girls have AIDS. And you clearly had no basis to do it. And apparently you thought that was a joke."

Luke: "Yes, that is true. It was part of a whole string of satirical pieces running on my page that day..."

* Paul: "And when you say it was satirical, but you at no point said to anyone that it was a piece of satire at the time you said it. You simply said that the Vivid Girls all had AIDS, didn't you?"

Luke: "Not quite. I ran it as part of a satirical statements..."

* Paul: "I keep hearing you use the word satirical and maybe you've had a chance to talk to a lawyer [LF: not true]."

[From the Oxford American Dictionary: satiric: using satire, criticizing in a humorous or sarcastic way. Satire: 1. the use of ridicule or irony or sarcasm in speech or writing. 2. a novel or play or film that ridicules people's hypocrisy or foolishness in this way, often a parody.]

Paul: "Let's break it down to the basics. Did you say they had AIDS?"

Luke: "Yes."

Paul: "You had no basis to say that."

Luke: "Absolutely no basis."

Paul: "No basis at all. Do you think that people that log on to your site may very well believe that girls in the adult industry may very well have AIDS? Do you see how somebody could believe that?"

Luke: "Yes it is possible but within the context..."

* Paul: "So here's the situation. The First Amendment says you can do a lot of things but one of the things that it says you cannot do is commit the offence of defamation. And that means you make a false statement which you have no basis to believe is true and you do so totally disregarding any point of thought about the truth. And in addition, somebody out there might reasonably believe that it is true. And you feel that you have the right to do this.

"It appears, at least from what I'm hearing from people in the industry, that you feel that you're immune to any kind of lawsuits because perhaps you don't have anything. But you know, sue away because I don't have anything to take in the first place. It is one thing to, and I know that from time to time you've tried to seek some refuge in the Flynt situation... Larry Flynt's decision in the United States Supreme Court. But this isn't anything like what Larry Flynt did to the Reverend Fallwell. At least when Larry Flynt did his Campari parody, he had in there a disclaimer. And the disclaimer said that this isn't intended to be true, and that it is fictitious and so on... And of course they said "ad parody, not to be taken seriously."

"You've never done anything like that... And now you have these various ladies who are working for Vivid Video and you mentioned a couple of other companies, you've accused them of having a life ending disease. And as far as I am concerned, that is the kind of thing that is unjustifiable in all regards. You have to appreciate the majesty of your site. A lot of people apparently log on to your site and they read your stuff and now you have taken this position with regard to these girls without any pretence of it being satire. You can't just two days later say something is satire and at the same time accuse these people of having a life ending disease. That, to me, is irresponsible.

"And that means if somebody is willing to do it and is willing to stand up to you, you should pay the penalty. What makes you think that you have the right to do that?"

Luke: "I think you make strong points. I don't think this is one of my proudest moments and I am not so sure that I do have the right to do that. And you're right to take me to task for it. This statement, which is totally outrageous and untrue, is in the context of a series of paragraphs of leaders in the pornography industry dancing around in women's underwear making outrageous statements while being on drugs..."

* Paul: "You made the statement about Steve Hirsch being in high heels and so on because he was arraigned on anti-trust charges..."

Wayne: "French tickler. Steve Hirsch is the president of Vivid Video?"

Paul: "Steve Hirsch is the principle of Vivid Video and Vivid Girls are the subject of this outrageous statement made by my ahh, uhh, ahh, made by my ahh, uhh, my ahh, uhh...."

Wayne: "You almost said colleague."

Laughter.

Paul: "I never even almost said colleague. I was trying to think of an appropriate word to be a gentleman."

Wayne Resnick: "Let me ask the attorney: Luke is obviously now, I don't know if he's hiding behind it or legitimately putting forth the idea that this is satirical. Let's assume people intend it to be satirical... If you go and sue his butt, would it matter who the audience is. Here's what I'm getting at: If somebody is writing a satirical piece in the New Yorker, then one would assume a much more sophisticated audience. With all due respect to everybody in the world, the kind of people who rabidly may be logging in every day to l-keford.com to find out what is going on with porno people... And these are the kind of people who find things like "Forest Hump" really funny... They might not have the same Noel Cowardesque flair for satire... So does he have to work even harder to make clear that it is satire?"

Paul: "That is one of the very basic fallacies that people have who are not that familiar with the audience that imbibes, if you will, in the adult product. The people who are the patrons of adult material are regular normal ordinary business professional individuals. And there has been this stereotype over the years that it is some kind of flasher in a raincoat but it has never proven to be so... If you talk to the people who run the video stores and who have logs of customers.

"We tried a case a year ago in Washington, actually in Virginia suburb... And it was one of the Max Hardcore films. And we demonstrated in the court room that the people who were the clientele of this book store were judges, police officers... One of the assistant DA's when we walked in the court room was a regular customer, a female... And a male as well. Ordinary people go in there. A lot of people think that only perverted weirdos are logging on to Luke's site or are going in to these stores."

Wayne: "French tickler. We have to get some traffic. When we come back, I will explain what I meant. I did not mean that these people would be subhuman in intelligence... I was getting at something else that hopefully you won't find as offensive... And then when we come back, Luke, you can throw a question at Mr. Cambria."

Commercial break.

Wayne: "Paul, let me just make clear what I meant to say. I did not mean to say that people who are into pornography are stupid, but I'm wondering if they as a group would be a little less likely, as they say, to have a book shelf full of Evelyn Waugh."

Paul: "You see, again, that's a stereotype that people have that is not born out by reality. That you have to be more pedantic to them because they are not as educated as you would think the audience for the New Yorker would be. But you may find out that they are the same audience. There has always been an underestimation of the level of sophistication of people who are interested in adult material. And we see it born out by the kinds of people who are members in the tens and hundreds of thousands in the video stores across the country. And they are not just the bumbling raincoat crew. They are people from all walks of life."

Wayne: "So that being the case, shouldn't they then be savvy to know that he was kidding."

Paul: "He's kidding. Well, here's his statements: "Meanwhile, KCBS TV reports that the reason Vivid, VCA and AVN mandate the use of condoms in their productions is that all of their contract girls have AIDS."

"Let me tell you, the average individual out there logging on to his site who's going to say, well, let's see now, people in the adult industry, yeah, sure, I can believe they have AIDS..."

Wayne: "I just noticed Paul... Luke, I think I am ganging up on you. He didn't just say they all have AIDS. He said that KCBS TV reported that they have AIDS. Luke."

Paul: "He made it a factual situation, with the unabashed appearance of fact."

Wayne: "Let Luke say something for himself. Luke, if you were going to make a joke, that all the girls from Vivid Video have AIDS, aren't you making it worse that it was reported on a TV station that they all have AIDS?"

Luke: "That's what makes it all the more fantastic and wild. When you run a piece that says a bunch of pornographers like Steve Hirsch running around in women's underwear and high heels and drunk and high on drugs and saying outrageous things, then you come in and throw..."

* Paul: "It's interesting. You say a bunch of pornographers. We look at your website and you have links to every piece of adult material in the industry. In fact, you're a blip on the screen because of the adult industry and then you hold yourself up holier than thou to criticize the adult industry. But for the adult industry, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. You put your very existence... By carpetbagging on to the adult industry... Then you make these outrageous statements like drunk, high... You know there's no basis for that but you make those statements and that's the thing I have the problem with."

Wayne: "Paul, even I sort of figured this out about Luke. And Luke, why don't you respond to this. Luke doesn't like you guys. Luke sort of... Luke is very conflicted."

Paul: "Luke loathes everybody that has anything to do with the adult industry because they have a career. Before this Luke worked at a radio station someplace doing the traffic report or something... This is Luke's day in the sunshine and he got it only because of the adult industry."

Wayne: "But he's got a love-hate repulsion with the world. It gets you horny then it makes you feel really sick and dirty. And then you kinda hate it."

Luke: "Yeah, I have many reactions to pornography like I think most people have to pornography. On the one hand they will use it to achieve a certain level of stimulation, and to satisfy that need. Then afterwards they may feel disgusted. When you walk into a store and you are hungry for this material, all the boxcover look fascinating. And then as soon as you have reached that level of fascination and satisfaction, then it is the last thing you want to see..."

* Paul: "Luke, why then would you have so many links to so many adult sites and invite them to be a link to you. Why would you do that if you are so disgusted about it? Why would you tell people like Ed Powers and so on that you wished you were in a porno movie. I mean, come on. Why would you say that one of your great loves in life was one of the main porno actresses [Kendra Jade]. Come on, which side of your mouth are you talking out of? You're like a male medusa [many headed creature]. Whenever it is to my benefit Luke F-rd to criticize the industry, I criticize it. On the other hand, when I'm making a living or somebody is looking at me as someone significant, all of a sudden, the adult industry is ok. I hate them all but nevertheless look at all the links I have on my site. Come on, where are you coming from?"

Wayne: "We'll let Luke answer that when we come back. And we notice now Luke that Paul is not the only guy ticked off at you. Now we're getting some calls..."

Paul: "I'm not so much ticked off as disappointed in somebody who would abuse the great right of the First Amendment."

Wayne: "Oooh, that hurts even more. Oh God. All right... When Luke F-rd comes back, he's got a lot to answer for. This is KFI AM 640, more stimulating talk radio."

Commercial break.

Wayne: "We're continuing this... I don't know if I could call it a debate. A debate would be a carefully moderated give and take between two people who are respectful of the other person. This is more of a dog fight. In the studio, Luke F-rd, proprietor of l-keford.com who likes to write a lot about the adult industry and doesn't necessarily, and you stop me if I am being unfair, doesn't necessarily go way way out of his way to make sure it's all true all the time."

Luke: "That is absolutely correct. I love to run baloney in there."

Wayne: "He's proud of it. And on the phone, Paul Cambria, attorney for Vivid Video who are not too happy with Luke. And Paul, we're about to be joined by Mark [Kernes] in Hollywood. Hi Mark, what would you like to say to Luke."

Mark: "Hi. I don't really want to say too much to Luke. But I think you are laboring under a couple of misaprehensions here. For one thing, Luke defamed the magazine I work for, and when we threatened to sue him, he was forced to retract it."

Wayne: "How do you defame a magazine?"

Mark: "We review adult video tapes. And he claimed that, essentially, our reviews were for sale for people who advertised. That was number one. And the other one was that we gave out an award at our award show last January in Las Vegas that, the only reason the guy got the award was that he supplied hookers to one of our employees."

Wayne: "Did you say that Luke?"

Luke: "Absolutely I did say that."

Wayne: "Is that true?"

Mark: "It absolutely is not."

Wayne: "I'm asking Luke. Why would you say that?"

Luke: "I had a source close to the situation who told me that Adult Video News, the one trade publication of the adult industry..."

Paul: "Luke, do you do anything to actually check sources like responsible journalists do or are you the type of person that no matter what someone tells you, you go with it. You have to realize that in the industry like everywhere else people have competitors and they would like to do damage to other publications and so on, so you would have someone who would literally say anything to try to get an advantage themselves. Responsible journalists check their sources and make sure it is not just someone who's a competitor with an evil motive and so on... And the big problem with you, from what I can see on your site, is that you go with whatever anybody says to you... And that is the highest highest abuse of someone's right to free speech."

Mark: "It goes even further than that. Luke has written on his site that he doesn't even care if what he prints there is the truth or not. That's certainly not responsible journalism."

Paul: "He has a quote at one point where Gerry says to him, why did you say that Vivid sends all their contract girls to the Bunny ranch to be prostitutes. And he says, oh, I just made it up. It was a slow news day. No truth to it at all."

Wayne: "Is that true?"

Luke: "That's absolutely true."

Wayne: "Paul, can I ask you for some legal advice. I would like to put up a website and just make up a bunch of stuff about people. But I am going to say right on my website that I don't care if anything I put on my website is necessarily true or not. So therefore nobody should believe that anything is true."

Paul: "Maybe, but Luke didn't do that. It was only recently, the fourth of August, where he had a little bit of a line here that says: 'Luke likes to wreak havoc with people's minds and he gives no consideration to the truth when he updates his site.' I suppose he has probably been talking to a lawyer since he got our letter. I would hope so. But there was clearly none of that beforehand.

"He always takes refuge on his site in the Flynt decision in the Supreme Court. I know Larry Flynt very well. I represented him for many years including both of his trials, including the most recent one. I did not represent him before the Supreme Court. Alan Isaacman did... He's a civil lawyer. And I can tell you that he [Luke] couldn't be farther from the truth or farther from the facts as to what that decision stands for. And Flynt there was very careful to say right in the piece about Fallwell that it was an ad parody not meant to be taken as true. You have to have some responsibility when you're out there on the web and there are people there logging on... Look at these girls that work for Vivid Video and these other companies.. They're out there and they dance in clubs and they're in the adult business and now they have people thinking that they have AIDS. Noone has a right to make such a statement about anyone else. Not Luke F-rd and not anyone else. And certainly not under the rubric of the First Amendment. The First Amendment does not work there. It's not no holds barred."

Wayne: "Luke, what are you trying to do?"

Luke: "I'm just providing a little family entertainment. So that a family can get in the car and go down to Kinkos and they can download my news update and there are morally uplifting yet intriguing moral tales that parents can read to their children about so-and-so a porner might have caught AIDS..."

* Paul: "How about parents telling children some truth? All you are trying to do is make a living out there and get somebody to pay attention to you. You wrote a book and you're touting it out. You figure if you be outrageous that maybe somebody will pay attention to you and you will further yourself economically. Well you know it doesn't work that way."

Luke: "I'm just teaching and preaching in parables. Some times there are greater truths..."

* Wayne: "What are the greater truths that you are trying to get at with a website where you gleefully throw barbs at the adult industry?"

Luke: "On the AIDS story, one of the conceptions people have is that if you are required to use a condom it is that you have some sexually transmittable disease. Why else would you require people to use condoms?"

Wayne: "Paul, are you buying at all the idea that he's really trying to let the people know that the women don't have AIDS by saying that they all have AIDS?"

Paul: "Come on. It's one thing to be satirical and to say that people are in high heels. That's fine. That's perfectly legitimate. But when you say that innocent people have AIDS and there is no pretense whatsoever to make it look like its satire, and only has Luke gotten religion so to speak when he received our letter. Maybe somebody has explained to him that its a problem and now he's trying to say satire, satire, satire. And that's not the context in which that thing was written. And its obvious from the responses that he printed on the web that some people believed it. And it is one of those things that could be believed.

"It is one thing to do this general statement, oh me, I'm just a satirical guy, hahahah, let's just forget about it. When you get out there and you speak publicly, you have a responsibility. And you have to pay if you don't do it right."

Wayne: "How much should he have to pay?"

Paul: "As far as I am concerned, he should lose everything he has. Unfortunately the First Amendment does let people continue to speak. It says that if you speak, you speak at your own peril and you may be punished. The biggest thing he's got going for him, in his mind anyway is, I don't have anything. What are you going to get? You're going to waste your money to sue me. Well, you know that somebody may take you up on that."

Wayne: "Let's get a caller in here. Sean in Las Vegas, you're on KFI."

Sean: "I'd just like to tell Luke that he is a propagandist and that he's worse than the pornographers. The pornographers are saints compared to him. What he does goes against the First Amendment. And he's a liar. And the reason why he's doing this is that he's not good looking enough to be in a porn. He's so small between his legs its pathetic."

Luke: "That's true."

Paul: "Luke, is that true? Are you going to own up to that fact?"

Luke: "There is some truth to that. I really wish that I was one of those well hung sluggers."

* Wayne: "Let's not go there."

Sean: "That's a helluva way to compensate Luke."

Luke: "I do the best I can. I never wanted to be a porn journalist. I wanted to be a man of letters, a literary figure."

* Sean: "How dare you call yourself a journalist? That is offensive. You're a propagandist."

Luke: "All I'm trying to do is create a little entertainment."

* Wayne: "Wait a minute. If you're so like you didn't want to do this... Then why are you doing it?"

Luke: "I fell into it. I was a failed mainstream actor and I thought that I needed to do something to distinguish myself. I thought I should write a book. What's a book that people will read? Something about sex. What hasn't been done? A history of sex in film. I'll write a book... And then I had all these notes [which became this website]..."

* Paul: "You should answer a few more of those ads. I don't think you've found your calling. Going out and blatantly lying about people is not exactly a calling you should be proud of."

Luke: "Well I'm still looking. Maybe I should go back to acting. I really wanted to be like a novelist, striding through the great forests, creating prose and poetry and teaching, preaching..."

* Wayne: "I think I have a solution and let me try to mediate something here. Here's what I'm getting. Luke F-rd is a big pain in everybody's ass... You admit that you don't necessarily care if everything you print is true but you think it is ok because afterall we're just having a bit of fun."

Luke: "Yeah, just a bit of entertainment."

Wayne: "And Paul Cambria representing one company of many who understandably have a vested interest in not printing that all the girls have AIDS... Suggestions have been made that you are nothing more than a frustrated porno actor wannabe. Paul you obviously have contact with Vivid. They are going to listen to your sage counsel. What if he agrees to take down his website. Do you think you could get the people at Vivid to put him in a goddam porn movie?"

Paul: "I don't think so. They rejected the janitor. They rejected the valet guy. I don't think Luke is going to get a star on the walk of fame."

Wayne: "You should've seen the look of disappointment on Luke's face, Paul."

Paul: "Vivid is not interested in Luke taking his site down. Because Vivid has their end of the First Amendment and Luke has his end of the First Amendment. What Vivid doesn't want Luke to do is to lie. That's all there is to it. If you think it is a satire, say it is a satire. Say it upfront. Do it the way Flynt did it. What the Supreme Court recognized. But don't go out there and make vicious statements about people which you have no basis to believe are true.

"He made three. He said that Hirsch was arrested for anti-trust violations which is a blatant lie. He knows it's a lie. He said that the Vivid Girls have AIDS. A blatant lie. He knows it's a lie. And he said that Hirsch sent the Vivid Girls to the Bunny Ranch to be prostitutes. A blatant lie. He knows it's a lie.

"Listen. There's so much to write out there. I mean recently he had an article about Charlie Sheen and alleged liasons with hookers and so on. Perfect. That is exactly the kind of thing he should be writing. I'm sure he'd have plenty of listeners. If it is true, fine. But to make stuff up, especially vicious things. Can we imagine a greater problem in the last ten years that people have been aware of socially than individuals with AIDS who are dying, losing their life? This guy is making fun of it. It's just not acceptable."

Wayne: "Tsss, tsss Luke F-rd. You'll answer for yourself in just a moment. It's KFI AM 640. You are a bad boy aren't you?"

Luke: "I am. I am terrible. I am a great sinner."

Wayne: "You have a problem don't you?"

Luke: "I have a problem."

Wayne: "You have a problem."

Luke: "I have a problem."

Wayne: "Well, you know what, are you thinking about maybe trying to do something about this problem?"

Luke: "I just quit therapy. I thought I was getting better after 14 months..."

Wayne: "I don't know about that. When we come back, I have an important question for you. We'll finish this up. It's KFI AM 640."

Commercial break.

Wayne comes back and yells at his producer Mr. Levine.

Wayne: "Hey Luke F-rd, are you looking for a producer job in radio?"

Luke: "Yes, I love radio. I used to work in radio. I've always wanted to be in radio. I never wanted to be a porn journalist. I want to be in radio."

Wayne: "Calm down... Paul, what do you think about Luke's book?"

Paul: "I have not seen it. You asked about a producer's job. Maybe a produce job."

Wayne: "You're funny for a lawyer.

"Luke, you've got all these problems. You've got everybody mad at you. You already admit that some of this stuff is not true. You've already admitted that you really didn't want to do this. Are you happy at all or are you miserable every day of your life with this situation that you have put yourself in?"

Luke: "I am not miserable EVERY day of my life but I've done some very funny writing on my site. I think it's a real giggle talking about FBI agents swarmed across the Valley this morning, arresting leading members of the American pornography industry..."

Wayne: "Oh no, he's doing it again."

Paul: "All lies..."

Luke: "I know but it's fun... Including Steve Hirsch who wore a tasteful purple chiffon gown that accentuated all his curves."

* Paul: "There have been a lot of people over the years who've done things totally wrong and they thought they were fun. And I am not going to the extremes..."

Wayne: "Please don't equate him to Hitler."

Paul: "I'm not... I'm sure that there are a number of people who did things that were blatantly outrageous and wrong and they thought they were having a blast."

Wayne: "Jack, you're on the air."

Jack from Victorville speaks in a fake British accent: "Wayne, I don't know why you guys are making such a big deal. He's exercising his First Amendment right and you know what..."

Paul: "Jack, I'm noticing you have an Australian accent."

Jack: "I'm English."

Wayne: "Is that a real accent?"

Jack: "I'm from London, England. Yes. There's nothing wrong Luke."

Paul: "Let me ask you a question. Suppose you had a sister and somebody totally making it up said that she had AIDS. How would you feel about that?"

Jack: "Well, that's a different... He's making fun of the demoralization of society..."

Paul: "It's because it's you..."

Jack: "I wanted to say something to Luke. Luke, there's nothing wrong with being a media whore. You keep on trying buddy."

Laughter.

Wayne: "Here's Nick in San Diego."

Nick: "I've been reading Luke's webpage... Actually I just stopped reading it when it became a porn ad website instead of a news entity which I thought... But in his defense, he had everybody snowed. He has Steve Hirsch from Vivid and all the companies in a panic because he played the webgame better than anyone."

Paul: "You know you're wrong about that. All he has is the people noticing and protecting their own rights to the point that they need to protect their own rights. Believe me, they are not dwelling and hanging every day on his website."

Nick: "Obviously Steve Hirsch has better things to do than look at Luke's site, like look at naked..."

Luke: "Steve is hanging on my site. I know. He calls other leading members of the industry and they're reading my site over the phone to each other and they are plotting how to give me bad information. Steve Hirsch has tried to give me bad information through his contacts in the industry because he wants me to look bad. This guy is ducking and diving and jumping in circles."

* Wayne: "Wait a minute. KFI and Cox Broadcasting have no knowledge if what Luke just said is true. Nor do any of us here personally have any knowledge of whether what he just said is true and as far as I am concerned that is at best a totally unproved allegation made solely by Luke F-rd. Thank you."

Paul: "Who are you going to believe? The liar?"

Wayne: "Well, I must say... I've got to be honest Paul. He just said that and I have a lot of trouble believing that coming out of him."

Paul: "Here's our choice. Here is a guy who is an admitted liar and now he wants us to believe what he says. And who do we have to believe? The liar. Where are we going with this?"

Wayne: "Maybe what he wants is not for us to believe him but he just wants us to keep coming back to see how outrageous the lies are going to get."

Nick: "And he won. He won."

Wayne: "Oh yeah."

Nick: "He's a raconteur of the first order. He truly is. In all senses of the word, a story teller and somebody who can mug..."

Paul: "Do you think that a raconteur is somebody who tells lies?"

Nick: "I don't support lies. Of course not. That's barbaric. But you have to look at him as a media example or you are going to miss a lot of the points. Obviously he has you as legal counsel keeping your ears to what he is doing. Somebody is hiring you to listen to Luke F-rd."

Wayne: "No, they're hiring you to sue Luke F-rd."

Paul: "Nobody is hiring me to listen to Luke F-rd. I logged on to l-keford.com because I wanted to see if I was interested in pursuing Luke F-rd as a liar. And I am."

Nick: "Six of one, half a dozen of the other. He's won. Your eyes are on him. That is the reality."

Wayne: "If a lawsuit happens, I don't know if Luke F-rd will come out a winner or not. But Paul..."

Paul: "I don't know too many people come out winners who are admitted liars."

Wayne: "Just the president. Paul, let's say that you sue Luke and you win. And you get everything he has."

Paul: "What am I going to get? His computer?"

Wayne: "That's what I was going to say. What is Vivid Video going to do with a crappy computer and a couple of nice suits?"

Paul: "Well but you see, that's what he's counting on. He's counting on the fact that he is the street person of journalism. What do I have but my shopping cart? What are you going to get from me? So that gives me the license to say anything. And he may be right or he may not be right. Let me tell you. There are a number of people who are very upset with him and they may very well have his computer."

Wayne: "All right, we are out of time. Luke, you have 30 seconds to summarize."

Luke: "These are the guys who are trying to push the boundaries of free expression. Let's expand the First Amendment so that we can show all sorts of weird and kinky activities and wasn't Larry Flynt funny when he made fun of Jerry Fallwell. And we're just going to make fun of all the Christian Right. But as soon as you start making fun of them, then suddenly all these members of the Free Speech Coalition, like Steve Hirsch, a member of the Free Speech Coalition, are going after me, a harmless seeker of truth, a man who's trying to provide a little family entertainment, a little morally uplifting fare for families and children and people can get together and have a little bit of a giggle, a little bit of a relief from their hard day..."

* Paul: "But you see, that's the difference. Steve Hirsch and the Free Speech Coalition that he's a part of, they do it within the parameters of the First Amendment and you don't understand what they are. Or if you do, you simply disregard them."

Wayne: "We are out of time. Paul, good luck to you with whatever you decide to do about this guy... And Luke, I understand that you need to go now and have your lithium levels checked."

Luke: "Yes."

Wayne: "And when we come back, somebody a little calmer then you will be here... Bo Donaldson will be here... This is KFI Los Angeles, AM 640. More stimulating talk radio."

Bumper: "We get more complaints than any other radio station. KFI Los Angeles. More stimulating talk radio."

Female voice: "A grand jury probe and a police shooting of Tyesha Miller. Good evening I'm Peg Stuart with the ten o'clock news on KFI. Indictments could follow..."

Luke and his date then drove a couple of blocks to KLSX, FM 97.1, located at 3580 Wilshire Blvd near downtown Los Angeles. We met the affable Ed Powers at 10:15 and hung out in the radio station lobby.

We finally entered the studio just after 11PM.

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