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More Linda Lovelace Linda's biography 5/3/01 Linda Lovelace appeared yesterday on Bob Berkowitz's show Lovebytes on Eyada.com (you can listen to the archived interview) with her writer Eric Danville (who's married to porn writer Abby Ehman), the author of the new book, "The Complete Linda Lovelace." (See www.completelindalovelace.com) Linda Lovelace interview on Eyada.com. Bob: "Why another book on Linda Lovelace?" Eric: "Because she's got the best story in the adult industry. Having been a star from the beginning and helping to create the industry. Then a couple of years later, going against it, and saying she's not a fan of pornography. Her story runs the whole spectrum. "I'm putting things into perspective. Deep Throat came out 30 years ago... I've wanted to straighten everything out. Tell where people have the wrong ideas and the right ideas. And I wanted to show how her fame affected her life." Bob: "Linda, how did you become Linda Lovelace?" Linda: "I had the misfortune of meeting Chuck Traynor. He started out as a nice person and then did a complete 180 and beat me up from that day forward, physically, mentally, psychologically... The psychological damage will never go away. Linda Lovelace became a fictitious character who did everything she needed to do to survive and be alive today." Bob: "It was never your intention to become a porn star?" Linda: "Never. I will never be able to walk away from the name..." Bob: "If it was so troublesome, why would you cooperate with a book that has so many pictures of what you did that you find so abhorrent now?" Linda: "I'm not too pleased with the amount of pictures that are in there. Eric mentioned a few. I never expected there to be so many. I'm kinda disappointed. I think my story needs to reach all levels of society. A lot of people, even after 30 years, still think that I was a super sex freak that Mr. Traynor created." Bob: "The cover is you topless with just 'Lovelace' covering your breasts." Linda: "It doesn't bother me being topless. I did the Legshow magazine in January of 2001. I'm completely dressed in it. And I don't think there's anything wrong with being sexy as a grandma. And a great grandma too. Sex per se is not an evil thing, what happened to me is an evil thing. That I was beaten and forced into it wasn't right." Bob: "Who is Linda today?" Linda: "Linda is always late, a procrastinator. My middle name is Murphy. And I proved that walking out of the Sheraton. I'm just another human being who lives week to week and enjoys the hell out of my grandchildren." Eric: "She's a very nice lady and a lot more open minded than people would think. Mainly because she did cooperate with me on this book and gave me an exclusive interview in the back. She knows I work in the adult industry and she gave me the first interview with someone she knows works in porn in 25 years. "She answered every question I had. I offered to show her the questions beforehand and she said, she'd just do it. "Linda was only actively participating in the adult industry for about six months total. It's changed a lot in great part because of what happened to Linda and the notoriety that she got. Women are not yanked off the street and coerced into it. There's a profit motive for women being in it. It's something that women do by choice now." Bob: "There's not the exploitation that might've happened during the Linda Lovelace era." Eric: "No, definitely not. There's a lot of self exploitation which I support totally. But as far as people being coerced into working in porno movies today, that doesn't happen." Linda: "I would never say that it doesn't exist. Because everyone thought Linda Lovelace was a super sex freak and I was coerced into it. And had I been brought up to anybody, they wouldn't have known. And they couldn't have known. Because had I told the truth, I would've gotten more abuse." Eric: "Some people did know back then. I think Damiano knew what was going on between you and Chuck. He sort've said that." Bob: "I talk to a lot of people in the porno industry today and my sense is that these are very strong women who are dying to get into it. They think they're going to be rich and famous." Eric: "They think they're going to be the next Linda Lovelace." Linda: "I'm not rich and famous." Bob: "When people come up to you today and go, 'Wow, Linda Lovelace!' How do you react to them?" Linda: "I just act nicely to them. To them, I'm a superstar. An icon. It's like I was the star of Romeo and Juliet." Eric: "She's very gracious when she meets people. That's true. She accepts compliments about Deep Throat and accepts congratulations on getting away from Chuck Traynor and everything." Linda: "I've lost two jobs over the years because of being Linda Lovelace. I had the opportunity to go to Norway and actually march against the viewing of the film after all these years. There was a particular voice that said to me, 'Oh, why don't you just get over it?' There's no getting over it. It will be with me for the rest of my life. And I will hold my head up high and say, 'Yeah, that happened to me and I'm the survivor here. And if you want to listen to me, this is what happened to me. And if it happened to me, it can happen to you.'" Bob: "What made Deep Throat such an event?" Linda: "It bridged that gap that society has with viewing sex and discussing it. It was a so-called comedy. And when people can laugh at something that scares them and makes them a little uncomfortable, and feel more at ease, that opened the door to people to be more relaxed about it... "At [a movie memorabilia convention this past weekend], a gentleman came up to me and said he and his wife saw it and their whole sex life changed because they became more open with each other. And that's great. I'm just sorry that people feel the need to go see pornography to enhance their sex life." Eric: "The man we have to thank for this, and Linda's not going to like me for this, is Al Goldstein of Screw magazine. He reviewed the movie and called it the best porno ever made, and as soon as the word got out, Screw was an up and coming paper, everyone respected its opinion about matters sexual, when he wrote that, lines started going around the block. And it just snowballed. "I'd like to think that, not in terms for Linda, but for the general populace, it changed things for the better. It opened up a lot of conversations about oral sex, about sexual relations between people..." Bob: "Linda, porn has become so mainstream. It's middle America now..." Linda: "I don't understand your question." Eric: "I'm pretty surprised. In the last four or five years, with shows like this one and the Howard Stern Show, cable TV shows like The Man Show which has porn stars on. A lot of times, the only reason they would get into the news or on TV is if they committed suicide or as a joke. But there are some people who take them seriously. I think porn is an interesting phenomenon and it is certainly widespread but I don't think that it changes people's attitude a lot. "Companies started marketing Deep Throat on videotape in 1973 and would actually rent you a VCR since no one really had them back then." Linda: "I think people are more open to communicating with each other now than they were." Bob: "All for the better?" Linda: "I think so. For the better. I think it will be better still when people can communicate with each other and not have to watch porn." Bob: "But some people find porn entertaining and stimulating." Linda: "I don't." Bob: "I know that you don't, but some people do. It encourages lovemaking and trying new things. What's wrong with that?" Linda: "There's nothing wrong with that. For people to communicate better sexually is great. That's the problem with half the marriages. That they seek porn, that's not my thing. I think they should just be able to talk to each other about it. And yeah, Deep Throat did open a lot of doors for people and to me that's great. Now why do they need to watch anything more?" Bob: "Eric, you write an awful lot about sex." Linda: "That's got to be bad for your sex life. After you write about it all day long, who wants to go home and do it?" Eric: "Not necessarily. My wife is going to be on your show next week. The first time I saw her on your show, she was talking about the first time we actually had sex. "I think this country is really hung up about sex, especially with everything that happened with President Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. He could've been stealing money right and left and he could've been ordering hits on Castro, but the thing that really pissed off people the most was that he was getting blowjobs in the Oval [Office]. "We're not as open about it as people in Europe or France..." Linda: "I don't think it is nobody's business who the president does... He doesn't do anything different than what anybody else does in the world. If you took any business executive, I'd say that nine out of ten have had a little bit of experience like he's had. They didn't get caught." Bob: "It's very interesting. You are not comfortable with pornography, kinda anti-porn, but you are a proponent of good healthy sex." Linda: "Anyone who's ever looked at my Leg Show article, not bad for a granny. I have two cousins who look at me and say, 'You don't look like a granny.' There's no reason in the world that you can't look sexy at 89 or 29 or 19." Eric: "That's one of the things that I brought out in the book. She told me at one point that she thought it was ok to look sexy, and I told her, 'I think some people would be surprised to hear you say that because they think you're repressed and hung up... She said, no, I'm just a normal woman who's got a normal woman's desires and likes to do what a normal woman does.'" Bob: "Linda, are you married?" Linda: "No, I'm not married please. That's one mistake I will never make again. I'm a firm believer that marriage is the first step to divorce. Why ruin a great relationship by becoming engaged forever? I would live with somebody but I will never marry again." Bob: "Are you involved with anybody now?" Linda: "No, I'm not." Bob: "You can't get the book in bookstores or at Amazon? Why not?" Eric: "Because I've been working in publishing for ten years and I am tired of getting screwed. It's a total business decision. I wanted to start my own publishing company anyway so this is my first release." Bob: "Eric, you work in porn. Are there Chuck Traynors in porn today?" Eric: "There is a certain element of Chuck Traynorism in some of them [suitcase pimps] but not to the extent that happened back when Linda was working in the business." Linda: "You can't say that. You're not behind that closed door." Eric: "I've met a lot more of them than you have." Bob: "Eric, where do you think the porn industry is going?" Eric: "A lot of them are running scared because they are worried about having John Ashcroft as Attorney General. Bush has said he's going to vigorously enforce anti-pornography laws." Bob: "Linda, do you favor the government shutting down the porn industry?" Linda: "No. I don't think there should be any sort of censorship in our society. What we need to do is educate people about what's out there..." Eric: "I've read a lot of articles on her and I've never seen her say that the government should shut it down." Linda: "It's so frustrating when everyone says, 'Well, how do we know that you were a victim?' At what age are we victims? Does a 13-month old baby wake up and say, 'I don't want a bottle this morning. I want a penis.' In this country we have a book distributed that tells men how to approach a schoolyard. What child to look for. The one that's over by himself. How to get that child to come home with you. And how to get that child to have sex with you. That still runs rampant in this country. And that's protected under First Amendment rights. And everyone says, 'I don't want to talk about child pornography. We all know that's wrong.' "Well, yeah, we do all know that that's wrong. But it exists. We have an instrument that we insert inside of a female baby to enlarge it in order to take the capacity of a man and the baby hemorrhages or bleeds to death. That's acceptable? That's ok? That's the type of pornography that I am totally against. And Eric says that there is absolutely no way that this is going on right now. I'm sure it is. Behind somebody's closed door, somebody is getting abused and forced into it." Eric: "Not that I've ever seen, and I've been meeting women in this industry for ten years." Linda: "Yeah, but you're not in Middle America where Suzy Bell has been told that hubby's bringing home six guys tonight. And live out in the middle of a farm. It does still exist." Eric: "I see your point. I've done work for Leg Show magazine for Dian Hanson, a big fetish magazine. A lot of swingers write to those magazines, a lot of people whose lives are built upon multiple sexual partners and meeting them in hotel rooms and having consensual infidelity. Consensual infidelity is a big fantasy for some people." Bob: "We're all opposed to child pornography." Linda: "Everybody always separates it but they're related." Bob: "Then you should be in favor of censorship." Linda: "I'm not in favor of censorship. I'm in favor of people being aware of what's out there." Bob: "One of the larger producers of porn films said, 'we're not interested in a child audience. We're totally interested in adults. We've never had a kid, we've never exploited a kid, we wouldn't want this to get into the hands of children. We're interested in entertaining adults.'" Eric: "That's why I put the adult only banner on the book because I don't want kids looking at this." Bob: "What did you tell your own children about sex?" Linda: "That it is a beautiful thing. That falling in love is wonderful. Fall in love all your life and don't ever get married. My kids are open enough where they are enjoying themselves and my grandkids are too little now. They're almost four and almost one year old." Eric: "She's a wonderful grandmother." Bob: "Your kids did get married?" Linda: "My son got married and he's divorced. My daughter is living with someone." Bob: "Which you support." Linda: "Yes, I am all for that." Deep Throat was Bob and Eric's first porn movie. Linda: "I was out with my dad and his girlfriend down in Florida for St. Patrick's Day. And this girl looks over at me and says, 'Oh my God. You're Linda Lovelace.' And I went, 'How did you figure that out?' She goes, 'I've got the movie.' I say, 'It's 30 years later.' "They were sitting two tables away from us and I was fascinated by that. It still goes on like that. People can still remember that face. It still looks that familiar?" Eric: "Yeah it is." Linda: "I had a really decent job for a too morally strict company. As a temp, I was top of the line. My name was always up on the board and customers were always asking for me. So I decided to go on fulltime, and within two weeks, they separated our relationship because they found out about Linda Lovelace. And it had nothing to do with my work or my performance. That was the second time I lost a job because of that. It's caused some difficult situations for me in that aspect." Bob: "We've interviewed Brandy Alexandre who says that she got fired from her job working at a cemetary in Los Angeles. Because they found out at one time in her life she was a porn star." Linda: "That's totally wrong. It's discrimination to the maximum." Bob: "Yes. But the reality is that it [porn] is a decision that will live with you for the rest of your life. "Do people still watch Deep Throat?" Eric: "A guy that works at the video company that owns the rights to it says they print up 2000 copies a week." Linda: "I haven't watched it." Linda: "My son has been at parties where they say, 'Let's watch this,' and my son will just walk away and that person will never be his friend again. "My daughter's been confronted with the Playboy magazine [issue featuring Linda Lovelace] and she'll be like, 'You stupid F blank, loot at the blank date. And then she'll say, 'Do you want to know what really happened to my mother?' And she goes on a big long thing. She will confront it while my son will just walk away." Eric: "Her daughter's read Ordeal. Her son hasn't read Ordeal yet." Bob: "I have a friend, Candida Royalle, who was an on-camera porn star and now she makes them as a producer, director and writer." Eric: "She's a very nice lady." Bob: "I have no interest at looking at any of her films. Because it's not the person I know." Eric: "I didn't see any of her performances until after I became friends with her and it was very weird." Linda: "She does erotica too?" Bob: "She's a director of adult films from a woman's point of view." Linda: "I would find that interesting." Bob: "I ought to hook you two up." Linda: "We've met." Linda says she's thinking of suing the most recent company that fired her. Eric: "Was that the one where your picture was up on the wall as employee of the month?" Linda: "Yes." Bob: "It amazes me when I talk to these young people [starring in porn] and they will say, 'Oh yeah, my parents support me.' That a parent would say, 'This is great. I'm glad that my daughter is schtupping her guts out on camera.'" Eric: "We did meet one guy at a convention over the weekend who was guiding his daughter through her adult career, making sure she doesn't meet the wrong people and that's she isn't mistreated." Bob: "How did you two get hooked up?" Eric: "When I heard that Ron Howard was planning to do a movie version of Ordeal, I wanted to get a straight writing credit. Not that I have anything against porn, but I wanted to be in Vanity Fair or something. So I got her phone number from the guy who works at Arrow Films and I asked her for an interview. I told her where I was working at the time. I worked at Screw. And she wanted nothing to do with me at all. "So, I decided that instead of doing an article, I would do a book. And about a year and a half later, I called her up. One thing I remembered from Out Of Bondage was, why do people keep bringing this up again? I didn't want her to be totally caught by surprise. I didn't necessarily want her blessing, but I wanted her to know that this book was going to happen, and if she would give me an interview, it would make it as complete as I wanted it." Eric: "Why are you helping to promote this book Linda? What's in it for you? Are you getting a piece of the action?" Linda: "Yeah, not much. What's really in it for me is that I am helping Eric out." Eric: "Yeah, she's great." Linda: "I'm letting people see where it's really at. Now you're getting his opinion, he's pro pornography, and me, I'm against pornography. And the two of us met and it worked out." Eric: "She's real nice and I'm real nice. We're two friends working off of each other's opinions." Bob: "Is Ron Howard doing a film about your life?" Eric: "No. Their option lapsed." Linda: "It's not the first time. When it finally does happen, it will be because it is the right time and the right group of people." Eric: "For 20 years, they've been trying to get that movie made." Linda: "The only thing that's stopping it is someone with some insight [is needed to do it]. "I was looking forward to him [Ron Howard] doing it because no matter what he does, he always gives 100% honesty and truth and does a lot of research." Bob: "Why doesn't someone do it?" Eric: "Because of the subject matter, it would have to be an NC17 movie, unless you wanted to dilute it and not really tell the whole story. And I know that Linda is more concerned with having the whole correct story told. "I've seen a copy of the script for the proposed Ron Howard movie and it wasn't very good." Linda: "It was pathetic." Eric: "It spent a lot of time talking about the publishing of the book, which really isn't the story. Getting the story out there isn't really the story. What happened with Linda and her perspective of getting away from Chuck Traynor, that is the beauty of the story." Bob: "Why do you think so many people doubted you, Linda, and didn't want to believe your story?" Linda: "Society didn't want to know that they were partially at fault too. They wanted to blame my father, my childhood, my mother, blame somebody. It wasn't anybody else's fault but society. We created the Mr. Charles Traynor that did this to me." Eric: "When Ordeal came out, it made a lot of people feel really guilty about liking Deep Throat. They resented that. It was so much a part of some people's upbringing and insight into sex, that to have that taken away made them very resentful." Bob: "Where is Chuck Traynor today?" Linda: "I think he lives on a ranch in Nevada. He's going blind and is having a difficult time getting around." Bob: "Does that make you feel good?" Linda: "Only if he's suffering." Bob: "Did you talk to Chuck Traynor, Eric?" Eric: "No I didn't. Because I've read so many different interviews with him that I knew his story wouldn't change." Bob to Linda: "What was the upshot of your relationship between you and Traynor? Did you ever sue him?" Linda: "No. There are no laws for the victims of our society... The statute of limitations on your property has a greater length of time than on your personal body. Judges and lawmakers have to realize that you are not held captive for two-and-a-half years and abused on a regular basis and then wake up the next day and everything is peaches and cream. It takes years and years to get up. "When my children were little, there were times that I would be playing with them, and get a flashback, and start crying. There were times when I was in bed with my husband and he would touch me in a certain way and it would be a total flashback. It takes a long time to heal all that." Bob: "It's amazing you have such a healthy and comfortable feeling about sexuality today, given what you went through?" Linda: "I'm not going to let him take something so beautiful away from me." Eric: "She's very interesting. She's quite a woman." Linda: "I'm going to be at the Hells Angels tattoo convention in Manhattan on the weekend of May 18 [in New York]." Free Speech Coalition president Gloria Leonard writes: "Inasmuch as I come from the same generation of performers as Linda Lovelace and have been subjected endlessly to her tired old bulls---, I find it continually compelling that she continues to blame Chuck Traynor for her lot in life. If a woman doesn't like what's happening in a relationship, any relationship, well then, there's the f---ing DOOR! Take a hike, call the police, SOMETHING. But no, even thirty years later, she absolutely refuses to take responsibility for her crappy life choices and decisions. As we all know, Linda made some 8mm loops having sex with a f---ing GERMAN SHEPHARD, pre-Traynor - now who made her do THAT? In the Berkowitz interview, she claims NOT to be anti-pornography but contradicts that position elsewhere. And if she feels exploited, she is in fact, nicely exploting herself by appearing at movie memorabilia conventions, tattoo conventions, promoting her book, appearing in PORN mag, Leg Show, doing interviews, ad nauseum. She is a whiny hypocrite who is so easily influenced that, back in the 70s, she also became the poster child porn-pawn of the so-called feminist movement, joining their ranks and railing against adult entertainment. Bottom line - get a life and get over it, you famously talented cocksucker." 5/10/01 Linda Lovelace Special On Luke F-rd Live Listen here to Tuesday's show with Linda Lovelace expert Eric Danville. Next we interview Eric Danville, author of The Complete Linda Lovelace. Never has somebody assembled so much material on the Deep Throat star. It's an important book on an important topic. Finally, the Linda Lovelace book we've all been waiting for. And you can quote that blurb in your promotions, Eric. Eric: "Three years of my life, that was." Eric wrote, assembled and published the book. "And thousands and thousands of dollars putting it all together and collecting this stuff too." Luke: "What did you think of the True Hollywood Story on Linda Lovelace?" Eric: "It was ok. I knew what it was going to be like going into it... It was the first time I'd done a show like that. They give you a pre-interview and let you know where they want the story to go. They tell you what the questions are going to be. It was the typical Linda as victim, the same story everyone's been hearing for 20 years." Jim: "She didn't age too well." Eric: "She looks ok. She looks like a 52-year old Linda Lovelace. She's suffered miserably. With the liver transplant... She can't really afford to take her medication all the time. She's supposed to take two or three pills every day for life and she's lucky if she takes 15 a month." Jim: "And they don't have an old porn star fund. It's not a business that likes to give back to its own. Some people would say that it is because there are a lot of Jews in it, but there are a lot of Jews in regular Hollywood and they give back." Luke: "Eric, do you buy Linda's claim that she was a victim and an unwilling participant in Deep Throat and her other pornographic adventures?" Eric: "As far as her getting beaten up and domestically abused, yeah [I believe her claims]. As far as her enjoying the sex on film, I can't possibly know that. And no one other than her and Chuck could possibly know that. It wasn't really my intentions to prove or disprove anything. "I was definitely skeptical [of Linda's claims]...until I read the Screw interviews with [Gerard] Damiano and Chuck Traynor [where they talk about Chuck beating Linda]." Luke: "But do you buy her claim that she was a victim of the pornography industry?" Eric: "Not necessarily. I buy her claim that she was a victim of Chuck Traynor. I think she was only a victim of the pornography industry in as much as she really didn't want to do pornography and the straight media really didn't know what to do with her. As mainstream America saw her with the taint of pornography on her face. She never really said that Harry Reems [Linda's Deep Throat costar] laid a hand on her, or that Damiano laid a hand on her." Luke: "She claims that when people watch Deep Throat, they are watching her being raped. That seems ludicrous." Eric: "That's definitely her perspective. But it makes sense. She did it unwillingly, she says. Sex against someone's will is rape so whenever they watch that movie, they're watching her being raped. It depends on whether or not you believe that she did not enjoy having the sex, which I think a lot of people in porn have a hard time believing." Luke: "I believe she was in an abusive relationship with Chuck Traynor." Jim: "Half the girls in porno today are in abusive relationships. Big deal. Ok, the only difference is that this movie happens to be the big crossover movie. This movie became the biggest grossing independently financed feature. If it didn't make all that money, nobody would give a s---. Because this happens all the time. I shoot porn for a living. I've had girls come on my sets with black eyes. Where do you think they got 'em? They didn't fall off their stationary bicycle while they were exercising." Eric: "Who's come on your set with a black eye?" Jim: "I don't want to name names. I've seen it. I've seen these suitcase pimps. Some of them are kind of abusive. I've seen their reaction when they [the girls] did a s---ty scene and didn't really put themselves into it. And I can only imagine what went on after they got home. I've seen that plenty." Eric: "It sounds like you are more on Linda's side than Luke thinks I am. In my ten years of interviewing chicks, I've never seen one with a black eye." Jim: "You've got this suitcase pimp who's a drug addict and she's financing his drug addiction." Eric: "There are firemen who go home and beat up their wives." Jim: "It's a fact of life in society." Eric: "I knew a guy who was a battered boyfriend. He was routinely beaten up by his girl." Jim: "Luke could easily become a battered boyfriend. Because he's wimpy. If Luke got a girlfriend who started beating on him, Luke would not only take it, he would stay in the relationship. He'd just go talk about it to his therapist. He'd convince himself that he deserved it." Luke: "I am in an abusive relationship. I have you as a cohost every week." Jim: "I can empathize with Linda Lovelace for being in an abusive relationship but she's trying to make a career out of it." Eric: "She was led down the wrong path a couple of times in life. You have to really spend some time with her..." Jim interrupts again: "She probably sits there and goes, 'They made a movie about Ike and Tina Turner, why don't they make a movie about me and Chuck Traynor?" Eric: "People have been trying for 20 years. She definitely wants vindication with whatever movie gets made. "A few years ago, Ron Howard was going to do a movie. I got a copy of the script and gave Linda a copy. She made it through about ten pages and she couldn't handle the dramatic license they were taking... "It's the classic story of good triumphing over evil." Jim: "But did good really triumph? Tina Turner went on to become a superstar without Ike. She didn't become anything." Eric: "I don't think that was necessarily her fault though. "Linda's been playing it [victimhood] lately only because that is the only thing that people ask her about. If anything, that would be my only true complaint about the E! True Hollywood Story thing. Whenever anyone sits her down and interviews her... And I've been doing a lot of interview with her for this book. And I have to sit people down beforehand and say, 'If all you're looking for is to bag an interview with Linda Lovelace the victim,' that's not going to happen. What I'm into and what I spoke to her about in the back of the book is where she's at now. She's really pretty much over it. It's only when people keep bringing it up, 'Oh, wasn't it horrible what happened to you with Deep Throat,' that she gets all morbid and depressed about it. That's the only thing people really give a s--- about. But if they ask her, 'what is it that gives you joy in life?' First words out of her mouth are going to be 'Oh, my grandson is the light of my life.' She has a lot more going for her than the victim mentality that people commonly see her for. "Any movie that's made about her has got to show that she was victimized, but she's gotten over it." Luke: "Do you think she was victimized? You seem to keep using this as though you believe she was?" Jim: "I'll tell you how she was victimized. Because the movie made $300 million dollars. It continues to produce revenues today and she ain't seeing a f---ing dime of it. And she's got to think about that every fricking day." Eric: "That's part of why I'm going to heaven. In doing this book, I knew I was going to make some money off of this. When I called her up and asked her for an interview, I wanted to tell her that the book was on its way so she wouldn't be surprised. And I wanted to help her get some money. And she wanted some money to do the interview. And I told her that I don't pay for interviews. I won't do that. But I will show you ways to make money using your name. "And I told her, 'I don't think there's a reason in the world that you should be ashamed of having been Linda Lovelace. Other people are making money off of the name. Still do. I'm going to. You should to.' So I've been teaching her about marketing, about personal appearances with movie memorabilia and she's done well at those events. And people come up to her absolutely loving it because they're meeting somebody famous. Not because they're meeting a porno star who's going to suck their dick. But they're meeting a legitimate pop culture icon. "And she is so gracious with everyone. Granted, most of the people come up to her and say, 'Deep Throat was the first movie I saw. And I saw it with my girlfriend. And it opened up our sex lives...' She's very happy for people. If they ask, 'Oh, is it really true? What you say.' She says, 'Yeah. I was forced to make that movie.' And she signs her autograph and they go on their way. "A large percentage of people come up to her with copies of Ordeal for her to sign. 'Oh my God, my girlfriend lived in an abusive relationship with her boyfriend and I gave her a copy of your book and she had the strength to get away from him.' So she sees people from both sides of the spectrum." Luke: "How did you get her to talk to you?" Eric: "That wasn't easy. I had to charm her. I sent her flowers for her birthday. When I heard that Ron Howard was going to be doing a movie, I called her up and I had gotten her number from a guy who'd worked at Arrow Video. And I introduced myself to her. I recognized her voice right away. She told me that she was her [Linda's] secretary. And I told her what I wanted. That I worked at Screw magazine. She said, 'Oh, Goldstein, huh?' I said, 'Yes, I'm being honest with you.' She gave me about ten minutes of her time. I told her what I wanted and she said that she would give Linda the message and to never call again. "So I didn't call her for another year and a half until I was actually working on the book and getting to the end of it. And I realized that to complete my book, I wanted to have an exclusive interview with her. And when I told her that, she realized that I wasn't just out to trash her. And that I knew Catherine McKinnon's books, and I knew Andrea Dworkin's books. She said that I'd caught her on a good night. She said that she wanted to meet me in person and see what I was about. "I flew out to her a couple of months later. I met her. I told her what I wanted to do with the book, the marketing and all that. About a month after that, she gave me about two-and-a-half hours of her time and I got the interview." Jim: "Didn't she go on a religious trip for a while?" Eric: "No, no, not really. There are a lot of things that people think that they know about Linda like she's a born again. She wasn't born again. She's always been pretty religious. She didn't have a double masectomy. She had a liver transplant. But she didn't go on a holler roller..." Jim: "I think she should make a comeback movie?" Eric: "It's probably not going to happen any time soon. She's been offered a lot of money to do that." Jim: "Nobody's doing anything with the domain name LindaLovelace.com." Eric: "But it takes a lot of money and a time investment. She would definitely win a case like that." Luke: "Eric, why didn't you do a conventional journalistic evaluation of the truth of her claims [of victimhood]?" Eric: "It's more like a pop culture book and the beginning part looks at the way the media looks at her. And I am much more into the pop culture aspect of things, like collecting... The chapters on songs about her. But as far as [conventional journalism], I would have to talk to a lot of people to make it credible. And Al Goldstein wouldn't talk to me. [Gerard] Damiano wouldn't talk to me. And when I couldn't get the two of them... There are only about ten people who really really know..." Luke: "Do you leave [Screw magazine] on good terms with Al Goldstein?" Eric: "Yes." Jim: "Did you get tired of all the Jew jokes while you were there?" Eric: "No. I was writing some of the best of them." Jim: "Are you Jewish?" Eric: "No. I was the token goy with all my friends in high school and college." Jim: "Then you worked for Penthouse. Is it better working for guineas or for Jews?" Eric: "It's better working for guineas." Jim: "Eric, do you read Luke's web site?" Eric: "Daily. I think it's interesting cross between almost daily serious journalism and performance art. Sometimes when I can not take it seriously. And there are other times when he brings up legitimate issues. I'm interested that he's got such a hardon for the Mafia and the guys at Crescent. The online billing issues - I don't have an interest in. "I don't like a lot of what he [Luke] stands for... What he's doing is actually very smart. He's subverting something from the inside. And that I have a lot of respect for. I don't agree with a lot of his attitudes." Jim: "Would it surprise you to find out that he's not taken seriously enough to subvert anything? Because in the four years of Luke F-rd in the porn business, basically nothing's changed. And he has impacted nothing. When he started out, he pissed a few people off. But then people stopped taking him serious. He hasn't had a good scoop in two years. "The only thing he ever scooped was the Marc Wallice thing. That's his one claim to fame. When he dies, they're going to write his obituary and just put two words down - Marc Wallice. "We had a professor on earlier who wrote on erotica in literature in the 1920s and '30s, which Luke thought would be a fascinating subject for the group that listens to this show. "Luke is really a pathetic human being. He has twelve different diseases though no army of doctors can convince him that he doesn't have. His hovel is a converted garage. He doesn't go anywhere. He doesn't date." Eric: "He won't go down on chicks." Jim: "No, he won't. He's got vagina phobia. Everytime he meets a new porn girl and there's talk that maybe they will go on a date. I ask them up front if it is going to be a problem that Luke is afraid of her vagina. He ain't gonna get his face anywhere down there. And the girl always at first says no, but upon further investigation, she knows there's a problem. "Luke and Linda Lovelace would make a great couple. They're both martyrs." Eric: "One thing that Linda has in common with the mainstream porno community now is that she is not too big on Luke F-rd." Jim: "So there's not too big of a chance that we will get Linda on the phone?" Eric: "Doubtful. I didn't even tell her that I am doing it. "Linda was real pissed off when she found out that Chuck Traynor was going to be on E! True Hollywood Story. Way pissed. Because the guy [producer Dan Isaacson] had allegedly told Linda that he wasn't going to try to get Traynor for the show. They finished up their interview [E!'s interview with Linda] and then, 'Oh, by the way. We're flying to go see Chuck.' "I understood why he had to have Chuck on the show. But Linda didn't. She's not a writer. She wouldn't understand." Luke asks Eric Danville: "Do you believe that Linda Lovelace was coerced to do that doggie video or do you think she did it voluntarily?" Eric: "I had a conversation with her one night when we were talking about what was going to be in the book... When I first told her about the book, the only thing... She never asked to see it before I finished it. She never asked for any sort of approval. The only thing she ever asked for me to do was to not print the picture of her and the dog. "I had no intention of putting that picture in anyway. I also told her that I would not mention her maiden last name in the book. And her maiden last name is nowhere in this book and neither is the name of her kid." Luke says: Linda's maiden name is Boreman and I did find it in the book, in the testimony section. Luke: "Eric, do you believe that Linda did the dog voluntarily or was she coerced?" Eric: "We got into a big conversation one night about what was going to be in the book. I told her it was going to be everything, all her 8mm films. She said, 'All of them?' And I knew what she meant. And I said, 'I have to mention that. One, because I'm a journalist. Two, working in this industry where everyone knows about it. It's the one thing that everyone knows about you.' So we started talking about it. And she broke down into tears. I have not seen a person cry like that. It was amazing. If that is any indication of whether she did it voluntarily, I would have to say no. But I can't know that. But it affected her very deeply and it affected her very deeply and very badly." Luke: "Her tears are no indication of anything." Eric: "There were two of them. One was called "Dog One," and "Dog f---er."" Luke: "Eric, how many of your punches did you have to pull to get Linda's cooperation with this book?" Eric: "None. She never asked to see any of it beforehand." Jim: "Eric expressly said that she [Linda Lovelace] don't like you." Eric: "She saw you on E! True Hollywood Story. And that's what I meant in my email." Eric writes Luke: "dude, let's see if you know the meaning of these three words: NOT FOR PUBLICATION! you show up on E! knowing full well that you know nothing about linda. you acknowledge everyone else on the show but me. and you swipe my interview for your site to make it seem like you DO know something about linda. would it KILL you to put a link to my site, or am i too much competition for you? eric The Complete Linda Lovelace." Eric: "He [Luke] was totally magnanimous. By the time I got home, there was a link to my site." Luke: "I was upset. He dissed me. And I've been nice to him. What did Linda say about my appearance on E!?" Eric: "You were talking about her spiral of drug abuse and this that and the other. And what she was like in high school. And you've never met her. And you come across on this show like you've done all this heavy duty research. And I know exactly where you got every quote in your profile on her. The hagged hound you got from Jim Holliday's Only The Best where Jim Holliday is wrong about what year they came out and that they are not available on videotape. All those movies are available on videotape. That's how I got them. The dog movie is the most circulated one of them all." Luke: "I interviewed Jim Holliday on this. He talked to all five people on that dog movie. I've also interviewed Eric Edwards and people who worked with her in New York in the early '70s." Eric: "She only did eight [8mm] movies. The only two guys she f---ed on film in those 8mm movies were Eric Edwards and Chuck Traynor. And the three chicks were Eric Edwards' wife, Joyce, and Cricket, some chick they picked up." Jim: "Eric tried to come back as a director recently and it didn't go too well for him." Luke: "Nobody can back up this woman's claims that guns were put to head to make her do pornography." Eric: "Gloria Leonard ought to listen to this part of the archives. I've known a couple of chicks who've been in relationships like that. I went out with a girl in high school who went out with a guy who did a lot of the same things that Traynor did to Linda. It doesn't happen in front of people. It happens when they're alone. He's not going to beat the s--- out of her in front of a whole bunch of people and literally putting a gun up to her head. That takes place when they're alone and he can instill that fear into her and yeah, I believe that's what I did." Luke: "Yeah, I believe he knocked her around. Everyone believes she was knocked around. The main point is, was she coerced, with a gun put to her head, to make Deep Throat and these pornographic movies." Eric: "People take the phrase, 'Gun to the head,' a little too literally." Luke: "She chose to be in a sado-masochistic relationship like many girls." Eric: "When it comes to a point that a woman doesn't want to be in that relationship, it's not always very easy to get out of it. Nicole Simpson is a very good example of that. The girl I went out with in high school was a very good example of that. She was scared of getting away from the guy because she knew that he would just follow her whereever she went. He followed her down to our college one time and he was sitting in the lobby waiting for her. It can take two-and-a-half years to get away from someone like that." Luke: "It doesn't take two-and-a-half years. It takes a little self drive and discipline to make a phone call." Eric: "By the time you realize that you're into a relationship like that, and that you're not really into it, every bit of self esteem and courage that you have has been beaten out of you. My girlfriend told me that she was walking down the street with this guy. And she's standing on curb side. A truck is coming along. He pushes her in front of the truck but holds on to her jacket and pulls her back. And she was like, 'Why don't you just get it over with? Just f---ing do it.' And that affected me. She was also the chick I was with when I saw Deep Throat for the first time. "It was very odd. Then when I started reading more of Linda's interviews and interviews with people around her, I started thinking more about that. Maybe there is something to this. I think that a lot of people in the adult business have a problem with her because she implicates everybody in the business, even 30 years down the line, with what happened to her. Which is not the case at all." Jim: "That's just a bitter woman." Luke: "Eric, you know this woman Linda Lovelace better than any other adult journalist. How much credibility do you give her?" Eric: "I give her a lot of credence. She could've kept on making movies. She was the biggest thing in porn at that time. She could've been like Annie Sprinkle and kept on going for 20 years. She did the second version of Deep Throat and got out of it. There was no amount of money that would keep her in the business." Jim: "Eric, did you get to know Linda in a Biblical sense?" Eric: "No. I don't have sex anymore. I'm married." Jim: "Is she sexy?" Eric: "That's the weird thing. She is really sexy in person. She smells really nice." Jim: "Luke believes that to be a true journalist, you have to know your subjects from the inside out. Eric, does she own a dog?" Eric: "No. When I finally found her in the [Denver] airport, and she took me back to her apartment. I was sitting next to and she's 51 years old. And I'm thinking, 'This is Linda Lovelace. This is really bizarre.' And the thing I was thinking most of the time was, 'This chick can suck a really big dick and get them all the way down.' The whole time I've been dealing with her, I've been dealing with Linda, and not Linda Lovelace. "The first time I saw Linda Lovelace come out was when she did the shoot for Leg Show magazine. She's posing and all done up in really nice evening gowns and corsets and crap like that. And there was a point where the photographer tells her to do something with her hands and she just starts posing like in Vogue. And I go, 'Oh my God, turn the camera on the chick and she becomes Linda Lovelace.'" Jim: "They don't forget how to do that. It's like riding a bicycle. A couple of years ago, a friend asked me to supervise an ADR session (Dialogue Replacement) for Highlander. And the actress was Traci Lords. And part of the ADR session was that she had to breathe heavy into the microphone. I almost had to excuse myself and leave the room. She got into that breathing and it was almost like it was a porn set." Eric: "Traci just did an autographing session out here at the end of March and I hear that she was just a real cunt." Jim: "She was great with me. I talked to her for about 20 minutes. I didn't tell her about what I really do for a living. But I did hear from other people that she could not be so sweet." Eric: "I heard that she was really rude to the fans." Jim: "Do you think that Linda is a lonely person?" Eric: "Yeah. She has very few friends who are genuine friends. It's sad to see. I've spoken to several of her friends. When she moved into her apartment complex, she didn't go up to people and say, 'I used to be Linda Lovelace.' She didn't tell anyone that. When people eventually found out, they would pull her aside... And they'd be incredulous. Because she's a very sweet lady. She's not what you'd think - a bitter grizzled ex-porn chick, especially with the reputation she's got." Luke: "Eric, how many porn stars have you had sex with?" Eric: "None." Luke: "Did they shoot Deep Throat 2 as hardcore?" Eric: "Yes, they [Bryanston Films and Damiano Films] shot it as hardcore and then they edited it down to R. And most of the footage disappeared and somebody told me that the guy who allegedly stole it was dealt with [killed]." Pictures From E!'s True
Hollywood Story On Linda Lovelace 11/5/00
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