Lori Wagner Interview

I met Lori at the FOXE Awards Sunday night.

Johnny Keyes, Lori Wagner Lori Wagner Lori Wagner, Alicia Rio Lori, Alicia Cumisha Amado, Lori Wagner, Alicia Rio Lori Wagner, Ron Jeremy

We chat by phone Wednesday morning, February 23, 2005.

Duke: "When you were a girl, what did you want to be when you grew up?"

Lori: "I wanted to be a clinical psychologist or a CPA or a singer. Singing won out. I went to acting school on the lot at Screen Gems Columbia."

Duke: "What did your parents want for you?"

Lori: "They let me do what I wanted. I was thinking about that recently because I am writing a book about my life. I realize that my mom was trying to do the right thing by not stifling me.

"My parents didn't get around much. I was an only child. My mother had never taken a commercial flight until a couple of years. Because she didn't have experience in many areas, she couldn't tell me certain things."

Duke: "What did other people expect from your life?"

Lori: "I don't think I had any people who expected anything.

"I grew up in Hacienda Heights, which is between Whittier and La Puente."

Duke: "What kind of student were you?"

Lori: "I was a great student. I was not a dummy. I was a B, B+, average. I don't remember my SAT. I don't think I did that well. The SATs had a lot of math. I went to Cal State Long Beach. I only went for one semester."

Duke: "What kind of crowd did you hang out with in highschool?"

Lori: "Wow! You are fascinating. You're asking me some really interesting questions.

"I had a best friend named Marcia. She was hip and more mature than I. She was already having sex with boys. I was a cheerleader most every year in school. I was very straight. My dad was strict with me.

"Other kids experimented with marijuana. I'd always refuse and never smoke it. Every time I was out with my friends and I'd get home, my mother would be looking in my eyes and trying to find out if I had been experimenting with anything. After being put through that for about a year, I thought, well, if I'm going to be accused of doing it, I might as well try it. I tried it a little bit. That was a popular thing back then. I don't want to give away my whole age. I don't smoke it now. I haven't had anything like that in a long time."

Duke: "What did you look like in highschool?"

Lori: "I went to a highschool in the middle of LA where so many of the girls were hot models. Just a healthy bunch of girls. I considered myself a foxy looking girl who was always blessed with good looks. Plus I was a radiant person. I've always had a personality to go with it.

"I never had an attitude about it, unlike a lot of the pretty girls I knew, who were stuck-up. We called them "socias" (short for socialites). I wasn't hanging out with the socias and I wasn't hanging out with the ugly bumbling studious girls with no personality. I was in between because I liked all people."

Duke: "At what age did you lose your virginity?"

Lori: "Unfortunately, 16. I was raped. It happened at a party. He talked me into going outside to look at something. He was a big guy. He overpowered me and ripped down my clothes... I don't even consider that having sex. It took a minute.

"For years, I couldn't remember the first time I had sex, because of that. I blocked it all out. Only when I started writing my book of my life two years ago and started delving into it did my memories start coming back about that time. It is still confusing for me. My mind doesn't want to go there. It would be a choice of several boyfriends I had when I was 17. It could've been the first one."

Duke: "Did you become sexually wild?"

Lori: "No. I'm trying to do that now. But with one person that I like. I never got into wild sex enough.

"When I moved to New York [after posing for Penthouse], we'd go discoing. We'd go partying all night at Studio 54. We'd stay out all night drinking. When you're drinking and you're high, you don't know what you're doing and you don't care what you're doing. It was a different era then. There was no AIDS. Nobody worried about protection. People were all on the pill. It was women's time to do whatever. I didn't have that many partners but I experienced some wild things.

"I sent my photos in to Penthouse in 1974 and I appeared in Penthouse in 1975. I appeared seven times in the magazine, mostly in the 1980s. My last issue was in 1991. I feel that I could've done more layouts if I hadn't been age discriminated against. My fans to this day beg to see me naked in pictures. I feel so proud that I look good and feel good.

"I'm in about ten different scenes of Caligula. You probably wouldn't recognize me because it was so long ago and I was wearing these wigs. I've had breast implants since then. I had my natural body. Nobody worked out or tanned then. I'm as white as a ghost. I don't look fit.

"I had my first breast implants, tiny, in 1991. I picked way too small. It was a wasted surgery. In 1994, I had a larger set put on. Last June, I had a brand-new set put on. It's even bigger. I was in a car accident last April that put me through the steering wheel and the windshield. It devastated me this year. It did rupture my breast. I just put in a new pair."

Duke: "Do you notice a difference in the way people relate to you with the bigger implants?"

Lori: "Yes. It's slightly odd. It's almost annoying. It's almost fun.

"What do you think about women when you see they have large breasts?"

Duke: "They're creating themselves as sexual objects. I take them a little less seriously."

Lori: "I'm dealing with that at a time when I am trying to get other things going and be taken more seriously. I am proud of myself for not being angry about the reactions and being able to handle the whole thing tongue-in-cheek. It's a pressure. I'm a writer. I'm back in the studio producing music.

"I am tired of a lifetime of no respect. Now I've added these bigger breasts which are the icing on the cake. Frankly, I think they look beautiful. I have yet to see a better pair. Part of the reason they look so big is that I am very tiny.

"We tend to think that anyone in the sex industry is a bimbo. Guess what? We're not. We're just comfortable with out sexuality and we look at as a business. We don't have hangups like the regular world. Now I'm irritated that the regular world has laid this hangup on us.

"I intend on putting on a business suit and walking into that other world."

Duke: "How many hardcore movies did you do?"

Lori: "I did three scenes. Frankenpenis -- a scene with John Bobbit, "he barely penetrated," and a scene with Pussyman [David Christopher], and I tried to do a scene with a guy I was dating. Normally he was pretty good in bed but he couldn't perform on camera."

Lori talks about the aftermath of starring in Caligula (1979): "I couldn't handle it at the time. It was bad enough that I was gorgeous and had big boobs.

"I couldn't handle the scrutiny. You're talking to a girl who's taken care of her mother for 15 years. I'm not a swinger swinger. Sure, in the '70s and '80s when people were on drugs and doing whatever they did before they went into rehab. I experimented but not abnormally. Most of my friends who are not in the industry have a better sex life than I ever had. I was always wondering if somebody was trying to use me, especially after I became a famous Penthouse Pet. Everybody wants to screw you. Sure, I liked the attention of people being sexually attracted to me but they were before I became a famous Penthouse Pet.

"Now I have to deal with everybody in the world just wants to go to bed with me and not care about me as a human. Not have feelings for me. It's hard enough to get guys to have feelings for you anyway.

"For some reason, I reverted and never went out anywhere. I'd fall in love with one fellow and just date one person for a long time. Then that would end. I'd move on to the next one. In the last 15-years, since I became a dancer, I can think of six or seven men I've gone out with. That's it.

"When I was younger, I had one-night stands and I'd experiment more. There were lots of people then, but I was always looking for love. I was never the type of person to say, hey, I just want to get it on. I never acted on that type of behavior. Maybe I should've. I got the bad rap for being a sexpot, maybe I should've gone out and enjoyed myself and had sex and felt guilty and bad about that. I was trying so hard not to be perceived that way. Therefore, I'd be shrivelling up like a prune over here, just masturbating my ass off my whole life instead of being able to share myself and enjoy love and affection with other people. So now I'm making up for it. I've finally realized that what other people think of me is none of my business."

Duke: "What's the most amount of money anyone offered you to sleep with them?"

Lori: "Many time $10,000. I never tried to get the price up or tried to bargain because I wasn't interested in it. I'm not a prostitute.

"When you become a stripper, every customer you meet wants to know how much to take you home. I'm an entertainer and I had to draw the line somewhere.

"I still work as a stripper. I'm trying to get out of it and get some other things going because of my [car] accident, my neck tightens up. I started dancing in 1989."

Duke: "So how did you make your living in 1975, when you first appeared in Penthouse, till 1989?"

Lori: "When I first appeared in Penthouse, I was a theatrical actress doing musical plays. I did one at the Whisky called 'Let My People Cum.' That show was a big hit in Greenwich Village in New York. The producer took part of the cast from the Village and part of the cast from the Whisky and put us on Broadway.

"I was young. Being in Penthouse and starring in a Broadway musical that also had nudity. Back then, people weren't doing it. I was one of the few persons taking her clothes off who also was an actress and a singer.

"Then I did a revival of Hair on Broadway. Back then, porno was an underworld thing. People could be arrested. When we made Caligula, we had to go to Europe. You couldn't make that in the United States.

"There I was -- proud and smiling -- a natural California girl starring on two Broadway stages butt-assed naked because I was just a free spirit. I felt really good about it until the media and the people... There I was, just one little person. I'm not much bigger than an ant. Just a girl whose got emotions and a heart. I can't take the whole world trying to grab at me. At the time, I didn't have a lot of protection. Sure, I had Bob Guccione and Penthouse but they couldn't go everywhere with me. I opened up this Pandora's Box. I didn't have any idea of how it was going to color the rest of my life.

"Penthouse put me on a retainer from 1977-2000. I had health insurance. I had a 401K. That's another reason why I never went and did Playboy and Hustler and Gallery and all the other magazines, which I kinda regret. I was pretty. Those were my young years. I could've been out there doing so many other things. But I liked the security of having a check every week.

"I lived at the [Penthouse] mansion for almost three years, from 1977-80."

Duke: "Why did you leave the mansion?"

Lori: "I was madly in love with Bob Guccione and I knew that I couldn't have him because he had a girlfriend. My heart was broken and I just wanted to get away. So I went home to California to try to put my life back together and I hid for a year after Caligula came out. I was very afraid. I didn't want to promote it. Penthouse offered me so many promotions. I could've been all over the world. I did go on a couple of promotions with Bob.

"When I did the love scenes in Caligula, I wanted to get famous so bad. But after I did it, I was like, ohmigod, what have I done? I didn't have Bill Margold at my side. I didn't have anybody to guide me through. Bob was a busy man. He didn't take the time with me.

"Penthouse LA had a baseball team for muscular dystrophy. For four months in the summer, we would work out and rehearse with the coaches and then we would go all over the United States and raise money for the MDA (Muscular Dystrophy Association) as a warm-up game before major-league and minor league games. I enjoyed that.

"I became a real estate investor and landlord. In 1986, I bought my first piece of property. That's how I made my fortune. I took my stripping money and I invested it in real estate."

Duke: "How did you come to do the FOXE Awards this year?"

Lori: "The last five years, I completely disappeared from the scene. I used to go to the CES every year and see everybody and sign autographs. I used to run around with all the XXX stars all the time.

"After I pioneered a lot of things, naked on live stages, Penthouse, Caligula, then with the Internet, nobody cared about a centerfold model anymore. People wanted hardcore sex. One day it was teasing and the next day it was another world. I grew up in the teasing world. In all the photospreads I did for Penthouse, there was no penetration. It was all pretending. Pictures from the side. I grew up in a world where you just didn't do hardcore.

"But if you didn't have [hardcore] videos, you could hardly get a booking as a feature dancer. Teri Weigel, Janine Lindemulder, crossed over [to appear in Penthouse]. It used to be a world where magazine models were one thing and XXX stars another thing. All of a sudden, it became one thing.

"It was hard for me to make that step [into hardcore]. When I finally did in John Bobbit's Frankenpenis, I knew that John Bobbit was so famous that with one video I could get the fame and the notoriety and the bookings to keep my act going. I was a feature dancer with over $100,000 worth of costumes. I wrote all my own music. I'm an entertainer.

"That one video kept me working for a couple of years. [Without doing hardcore,] I couldn't get bookings. Agents just dropped me. I couldn't get work anymore. And I wasn't ready to stop.

"My good friend Cumisha inveted me originally invited me to party all night [at FOXE] and have fun in her limo. She had a whole troop of friends going. Then I called Bill to see if I could perform, and sing, and then he decided I should say a few words about Marilyn Chambers and bring her up, since I am one of the few who actually saw The Devil In Miss Jones in the theater when it was released in the 70's. Little did know when I went to see it, that I (a somewhat normal female from the suburbs of LA) would ever get involved in the erotic industry.

"All of those older woman video releases were not with my approval or knowlege. They were I guess sold off to someone, or re packaged somehow. I was not paid for it or told about it, I would have never consented to film something with a title that infered that. I dont like the title, and with my great looks and young attitudes, have been called a timeless beauty before, and dont put labels on my self. That is how I stay vibrant and energetic, and sexy."

Duke: "How come you never went with a website where you have naked pictures of yourself?"

Lori: "I tried. I believe I was the first adult star to try to put her own website together [in 1995-96]. As soon as I heard about the technology... Because I was naive and uneducated... I'm not good with computers. I'm still not good with computers. I spent a fortune. I hired five different companies that ripped me off because they knew I didn't know what I was doing.

"I did have websites but they never made one dime.

"In 1998, when I couldn't get it together... I was in tears many times. Then I realized that maybe it was the best thing. I really don't want... I just kept trying to fit into a world that really wasn't me. I really didn't want hardcore pictures of myself. It would've been uncomfortable for me. I still have a lot of naked shots that nobody has ever seen.

"I decided about five years ago to drop out of the scene. To take all the nudity, even topless, off of my website and go back to the person I feel comfortable being... I like being totally naked. What bothered me is that I don't want to have to be. I want it to be a choice. I didn't want it to be, ok, you've been naked. You've had sex. Anything less than that is unacceptable. That is boring to me as a performer, model and artist.

"I love to dress up. Us girls have such a gamut... Thank God I can still dress up and look good. I enjoy being an entertainer, a singer and actress and all those things. I like fashion. To me, I can be more sexy with clothes on.

"I got a lot of compliments from college students when I took all the nudity off my website and just became this sexy beautiful woman. Because it makes them want to see more. Then I took the email off my website because so many people sent me worms and viruses, I couldn't keep buying computer systems. I haven't heard from anybody in years.

"I'm a songwriter. We didn't even get into that. Music is my main love. I've been writing songs for 27 years. I've spent most of my time in the last four years writing songs and recording them. I'm getting ready to emerge as a musical artist. I'm getting into the coffee houses and doing some Euro-music now. I play the guitar and do acoustic rock.

"I spent all my years in the sex industry when I could've gone all the way to the top as a singer/songwriter."

Duke: "What do you love and hate about growing older?"

Lori: "Wow! I hate knowing that I'm getting closer to the end. I hate that my butt may be sagging down to the ground. I'm trying to prevent that by doing my little bun exercises. A lot of people I knew died young. Older people have told me that as you get older, everyone around you dies. What I love about being older is that I'm blessed that I look great. There's a calmness and a relaxed knowing of things. I like knowing that I am well-off and [financially] secure. That I won't miss a meal. That gives me a freedom that I didn't have when I was younger.

"I'm glad that I can now enjoy sex as I never did before. I was always insecure so I couldn't enjoy it. Now I come from a different viewpoint.

"I have a beautiful home and a beautiful car. When you can do things that you love, it can help your spirits even more. If you love XXX, then that's the way to do it. Anything less than that, it will hurt you. I was not prepared for the onslaught of things in the timing of my life. It's different now. People don't bat an eye. I had to suffer so much flak when I was trying to get out there and be sexy. If I helped forge the way, then fine, because I think a hung-up world sexually causes anger. People should be own to do what they want to do. The nun's life is fine for some people.

"I had a self-imposed prison. Because of what I went through, it made me hard within myself. I love turning on an audience. It's nothing more than that. I'm a total human being."

Duke: "What were your impressions of Sunday night's FOXE Awards?"

Lori: "I hadn't been to the FOXE Awards before. Do they usually have it in that same place?"

For the last couple of years.

Lori: "I would've liked to have seen it more organized. It was cold. I've got a sore throat. People often don't realize that when women in the industry are performing, we don't have many clothes on. I was freezing. I admire Bill for putting on something for the fans. He's a classy guy in that he has great respect for everybody. He treats everybody with a velvet glove. He's a nice kind person."

Duke: "How has your sex celebrityhood affected your relationships with men?"

Lori: "I think it has affected it negatively. I'm still battling it. For me to enjoy being a centerfold star, which is my right, which I worked hard for, because of that, I've been disrespected and not loved for who I am."

Lori sounds like she's crying. "And that's so hard for me because I'm a real lover. I'm a real romanticist. I write a lot of songs about it. Love is what I dream about. It's very important to me and it's one thing about XXX that bothers me -- that they don't put love in the films.

"If I do some videos, which will not be XXX, they'll be educational, I'm going to be writing a book and it is going to be about putting the love and romance back into sex. Men don't seem to care about it which is why XXX is the way it is. It is mainly geared towards men. That was one reason why I had no interest in being in XXX.

"People just want to see the genitals going into something. That's fine. It's hot, sexy and wild. But we've forgotten as a society, it's not just me and my life, but when I look around at everybody... It's the difference between dating and courting. Once you've gone all the way, all that courting goes out the window. All you do is wham, bam, thank you, mam. That's why our relationships don't last. Year after year, after you've done that one thing over and over again, you don't have the rest that goes with it. I've always known that it is important to have some other things going on.

"Unfortunately, I never married. Or fortunately, as the case maybe. I'd rather not get divorced. It's not about the piece of paper. I very much want a family, even if I'm not married. I want to feel like I belong and to have that affection in my life. To know that I care about somebody else and to know that they care about me. I'm missing that.

"I like somebody right now but we don't have a commitment. We don't see each other often enough to my liking. I'm hoping that I can make that happen.

"I would never admit to myself that that was missing because all I ever did is work. But at least I can admit it now."

Duke: "The sex celebrityhood attracted the wrong type of men?"

Lori: "No. You go about your life and you meet people, but then once it's known, for some reason or another, no matter what I've tried, it's an overpowering thing. How many mothers are you going to be introduced to? How many marriage proposals would you actually get? You're just put on a different pedastal."

Duke: "How many mothers were you introduced to?"

Lori: "Not too many. Once in a while you get somebody who's open. Once somebody has known me for a long time, they probably see me as a real person, but they can't get it out of their head... Sex is an overpowering drive. Once you're labeled as Penthouse or big boobs or any of the things that are sexy, why do you think these guys marry these plain drab housewives half the time? They can't deal with a beautiful woman for some reason. I don't get it.

"There's a Madonna syndrome. I'm so fed up with it. I like to be a slut when I'm with my lover in bed. But I don't want to have to be a slut in the businessworld. I don't want to be a slut every minute of my life. That's for sex. Just because you have sex doesn't mean that's the only thing you are. It's ridiculous the way men have... Aarh! One day, probably after I'm dead, I hope that society gets their s--- together and stops hurting us women so that we can't enjoy sex. All you want from us is sex. But once you get it...

"The majority of the religious world just lays this perception that sex is a sin. I grew up with all of that and it has taken me all my life to sort through this information that I have been misgiven."

Duke: "What religion were you raised in?"

Lori: "I wasn't raised in one particular religion. I was raised exposed to all religions.

"When I grew up, nobody did anything [sexually outside of marriage]. Then you're brought into this other world where everybody lives together. I've lived through all of that.

"I do think it is better to have sex when you are in love. I like that I have been selective with my partners.

"I don't know. I don't know what other women do. Maybe I'm just talking about me. I don't know how other women get their wedding rings on their finger and play this game. All I know is that for myself, it didn't seem to work out.

"I'm going to keep doing my thing and hope that someday some man will be smart enough to recognize that he has a good thing going. And that you can be more than just one thing.

"I'm not sure that when you're famous, or was... I dropped out of the scene five years ago because I wanted everybody to forget about me. I didn't want to be Lori Wagner anymore. I didn't even call myself Lori Wagner for a couple of years. I didn't take any singing shows for years if people wanted to mention Lori Wagner or that I was a Penthouse Pet. I didn't take any jobs for a couple of years. I changed my name to Musik McCartney, Candy Able, Christy Cream. I didn't want to be Lori Wagner anymore because the heat got to be too much for me."

Lori Wagner is her real name.

Lori: "After walking away from being Lori Wagner because I was in tremendous pain, when I claimed myself back as Lori Wagner, I said to myself, I can handle it now. It is what it is. I will just have to forge ahead and hold my head up high and be the person who I am. I just can't be robbed of that anymore. But I was."

Duke: "How did your parents react when you became a Penthouse Pet and starred in Caligula?"

Lori: "My parents didn't know I was doing Caligula. I never told them. They knew about Penthouse. I asked my dad's permission before I posed. My first test shots were supposed to be for Playboy. My dad said, are you going to be hurting anybody? But I wasn't thinking about myself. I was thinking, am I going to be hurting anyone else. I said, no. He said, well, if you want to do it, then do it then. But I had no idea it was going to hurt me. At the same time, I enjoyed so many things and that's my life. I have some fond memories of so much of it."

Duke: "Has the price that you've paid for being a centerfold and nude celebrity, has that exceeded the benefits?"

Lori: "That's really hard for me to say. I made a good living. I had fans. I entertained people, even if it was naked. I had a personality and sense of humor and entertained people the best I could. I was successful. I have to get back with you on that and really decide. I can't give you a flip answer. I don't know what it would've been like if I had not done it. This is the only life I have. I'm not dead yet. I'm writing and recording. I'm interviewing to star in a new show in Reno at one of the casinos.

"The Penthouse Pet thing still seems to sell. People still want to mention it.

"I've told you a lot. I've really opened up to you and I don't know why."