12/29/00
AOL Sues Cyber Entertainment NetworK Over Spam
AOL has filed a $150 million suit against Netvision Audiotext dba Cyber Entertainment Network in the United States district court for the Eastern district of Virginia, Alexandria division. (Civil Action 99-1186-A)
Persons named in the suit include CEN owners John J. Bennett Jr, and Joseph Elkind, as well as Robert L. Atkinson, James Cattanach, Tim Perkins, Tracy Rizzutello, Kyle Vernon and others.
I interviewed CEN part-owner Joe Elkind Thursday afternoon.
Luke: What's this about an AOL lawsuit against the Cyber Entertainment Network?
JoeE: I have no idea what you're talking about. I have not been served by anything and that is a fact.
Luke: I will shoot you the URL of a JPG of a civil action supposedly against you by AOL.
JoeE: All I am saying is that I have not been served.
Luke: Do you have any idea what this is about?
JoeE: Yeah, I will tell you real quick what it is about. AOL is going to sue one of the big companies there is in the adult business, which is us, and if we don't squash the lawsuit they're going to sue every other adult affiliate program and every webmaster. We're the ones who are going to have to take it on the head again just like we did with UU.net, and squash this thing. This is unfounded because we never spam.
Webmasters might spam. We cut them off. We terminate them as soon as we find out without pay.
I had the flu. I was puking for two days straight.
[Lee Noga writes on Netpond: Was reading the Luke F-rd site, and I cannot stand misinformation, so let my anal rententive self correct this myth: JoeE may have puked for 2 days but the FLU is respiratory and not stomach inflicted in adults. Nope, there is no such thing as a "Stomach FLU". There are viruses that can cause these symptoms but it ain't the flu....]
Print that Brad Shaw is a dick. Everybody agrees. He wants to see the GIA [Global Internet Alliance] fail because he can't make it in business. He's not as smart as the rest of the guys. He blasts other people because that's his way of getting his name and ego out there instead of being helpful to the industry and working with people. He just wants to blast people. Not share an opinion, he just wants to blast people and talk personally at them. Sharing an opinion and blasting people personally are two different things.
He can go f--- himself. I'm going to punch him in the face at the Vegas show.
Luke: I thought he was a friend of yours.
JoeE: If you can't hit your friends, who can you hit?
Evan from Xpays provides a rejoinder. He says that Shaw's comments have no validity. It appears the two of them will fight this out in court.
Brad Shaw tells Luke: "I saw JoeE posting on Netpond how he has a plan to save our industry. He's trying to make himself look like a superhero and if you still want to be in business in a year, you better get in line and get along with him and go to his little meeting. Originally I wasn't aware he was talking about the GIA because he wasn't putting a name with it. And then I found out he was basically speaking for the GIA. And the problem I had was that he was trying to make himself out like he was trying to save the whole business.
"The truth is he is only out for himself. He's not out to help anyone else. Noone will speak the truth so I figured I had to put my two cents in.
"He's been posting for the past couple of weeks. About a meeting... I just got fed up with it. He's probably not going to fool most people but I wanted to make sure that he didn't threaten anyone. He's out for his own interests. He's trying to make himself look good like he's trying to bring everybody together and save the business.
"JoeE should be spending his time getting his own house in order... That goes to my beef with the GIA. These guys are out for their own interests and they should just get their own houses in order like I have done. I have spent the last three months, especially after the FTC, RJB stuff, making sure my own house is in order."
Luke: "What is the GIA?"
Brad: "That's a good question. As far as I know, they're trying to put together an organization to represent the adult internet. I guess it was founded by eight guys, the bigger guys in our business."
Luke: "Ron Levi, JoeE, RB..."
Brad: "I have some information as to what their goals are and I am not interested. I attended one of their meetings and I looked around the table, and I asked 'Brad, do you want to be associated with all of these people?' There was more than one person there that I would not my name associated with."
Luke: "Have you heard anything about the GIA planning to sue VISA?"
Brad: "I heard about it a couple of months ago but recently I have't learned anything about it. They're trying to launch it [GIA] to webmasters at the show in January... I would encourage anyone to go listen to what they have to say. I feel it is too little too late. With all the unscrupulous billing practices that go on and all the other scams that go on, it is too little too late.
"The government has just started coming into our business... If these guys present themselves as our leaders, they're the ones the government will go after first."
Luke: "What did you think of the FTC crackdown on RJB Telcom?"
Brad: "We all knew that at some point there was going to be a crackdown on someone. But never in a million years I would never guessed it was RJB. If it was any other company, they would've folded. It says a lot for RJB that they've persevered this long and in the end, I think they're going to come out with a clean bill of health. It's obviously a difficult situation for them. I don't feel that they have ever done anything wrong.
"I say there are probably a couple of people in this business that run things 100% legit. They're [RJB] is one of them."
Luke: "What do you think of this AOL civil suit against CEN?"
Brad: "We all knew it was coming. They're not going to be the only one. AOL has been investigating things along that line for a year and a half. And I guess they decided to go after CEN because they are one of the bigger companies... I wouldn't want to be on the other end of a lawsuit from AOL."
Luke: "What is going on between you and XPays.com?"
Brad: "For the past couple of months we've been trying to hammer out a settlement over some images that they used of ours without proper licensing. They took some of our images and put them in a magazine [ads in AVNOnline magazine], which is against the license of the image. They're only for internet use.
"We've played a lot of phone tag. About two months ago, I spoke with Michael at Xpays [the partner of Evan]. And we agreed that during the negotiations, there would be no bad blood between us. That I would keep my mouth shut and he would keep his mouth shut.
"About a month ago, I got an email from them saying: 'Thanks Brad. We're cancelling our party in Las Vegas because we've been told that you narc'd us to the police.' And my response was, 'Narc'd you for what? What are you doing at the party that you are so afraid of?' And I guess they had created in their heads that I had turned them into the authorites for running some drug laced party.
"Then today one of their partners [Evan] goes to the boards and starts running his mouth. I said, screw it. I'm not going to negotiate with them anymore. They're in the wrong. I'm going to turn it over to my attorney and they're going to lose. They used images without proper licensing."
Luke: "What kind of December are adult webmasters having?"
Brad: "As far as traffic, things are good. But as far as the state of business, a lot of people are really dependent on RJB and a lot of people are really nervous about what is going to happen with that. And after looking at who got elected president, especially the Attorney General [John Ashcroft], a lot of people are scared. I think the people who are worried are the people who didn't have their house in order.
"There are a lot of people who did not have good Christmases. The money is not what it was a year ago. A lot of these big programs are not paying what they used to pay. They still tell you that they're paying what they used to pay but they're not. The average webmaster is not making the same amount of money. I know smaller webmasters who were making $10,000 a month who are now making $3000 a month.
"The bigger want to be big, that's why they've all joined together to form this alliance. That's why there will be a bigger gap between the big webmasters and the smaller webmasters and there are going to be very few left in the middle."
Luke: "If webmaster affiliate programs say they're still paying out the same amount of money, how do they get away with paying less?"
Brad: "Some of them are scrubbing their credit card databases harder so it is harder to get a join. There are programs that only pay you on memberships that actually convert to $35 a month memberships. You might get 100 signups, but only 50 of them convert. So you only get paid on 50 signups. And I am sure there is some out-and-out shaving [where joins are not counted] going on someplaces. We send most of our traffic to MaxCash RJB. That's the reason I send it there, because I'm confident there is no funny business going on there. But it is getting harder to get the traffic to convert. Also because the surfers are becoming smarter. And there's so much free s--- out there, it is difficult to charge someone $30 a month.
"I read that quote on your website that JoeE was going to punch me in the face. Yeah. I think that says a lot about JoeE. He talks a big game, but when it comes down to it, he's usually with a 6'8" body guard. So I don't think JoeE's going to be punching anyone in the face. Especially me.
"I seem to really get under his skin. He talks about how I am a failure. At the end of the month, I bet I put more money in my pocket than JoeE puts in his pocket."
Luke: "But his company is huge?"
Brad: "He's a partner. He's got 70 employees, I've got six. He blows a lot more money than I blow. On one trip to Vegas, he can blow $200,000."
Luke: "How can you spend $200,000 in one weekend in Vegas?"
Brad: "Gambling, hookers, drugs... I'm not saying JoeE does drugs. Just talking in general. And feeling the need to impress all of your friends. Take care of all your friends.
"It's not uncommon. I saw something published on your website about the last show in November, about kids spending $13,000 in a strip club. That's nothing. Those are the smalltime webmasters. It's just all to impress each other. They've got to have the $5000 bottle of wine. They've got to have all the strippers and hookers hanging out [with them]. Some of these companies at the show in January will spend upwards of a million dollars.
"We're spending six figures plus. But they're throwing money away. We have a 30 by 30 two story booth. We've got six models. We're flying out Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf from the Howard Stern show. I'll bring out my staff. There goes $100,000 plus right there. But the difference is that we will sell content at the show to offset our costs. A lot of these guys are selling nothing."
Luke: "I thought you and JoeE were friends?"
Brad: "I would consider JoeE a friend. It's an interesting business that we're in. If I was in South Florida, I would call up JoeE and we would go out to dinner. It's just that we have differing philosophies of business. Outside of business, JoeE is Joe. Inside business he's JoeE Money, where all that matters is how much money he makes. Anything to make a dollar, that's his bottom line."
Luke: "What do you think of his celeb site?"
Brad: "I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole but when JoeE evaluates his risk, he feels that the money is worth the risk. Who knows the legality of a celeb site? Is Britney Spears going to sue everyone? And the millions they are making off the sites, obviously they feel the up site is worth more than the down side. I'm not out to make a quick buck.
"There are also the fake bestiality sites."
Luke: "Even Vivid is promoting that."
Brad: "I think they advertise that... Vivid doesn't run any of those sites. But a few other companies do. Even some that I am friendly with. I wouldn't send traffic to those sites. Babenet has several celebrity sites and several fake bestiality sites."
Luke: "What is a fake bestiality site?"
Brad: "To the surfer, it looks like bestiality. They're really not sure until they join. Then they join and it's a naked chick sitting on the back of a horse. I don't think it is good for our business. I think it fools the surfers. When I first saw the sites, I thought they were bestiality sites. On a couple of them, real small at the bottom, they will say 'This is not a bestiality site.'"
Luke: "I think what our industry needs most is a full hardcore bestiality site with integrity."
Brad: "Plenty of those overseas. I think what our industry needs most is a big shakeout. I think our industry needs people to go out of business. I think our industry needs some people to run into trouble for doing some stupid things. And at the end, there will be some people standing and there will be some people not standing. There are several people who if they went out of business, I could care less. And then there are people like RJB, who if they have problems, I would do anything for those guys.
"You've seen a big trickle down effect from Yishai pulling out from buying all this traffic. And you've only seen the start of it. The free hosts are having financial troubles because he's not there anymore. And there is no one who can take his place because no one can take his place. No one can do what he did, make money off that traffic."
Luke: "He sent it all to Crescent?"
Brad: "I believe so. Obviously he was able to make money off the traffic. And no one else can make money off it. A couple of years ago, we bought some of the free host traffic off one of the larger free hosts and it converted one in 36,000 on our best converting site. That was a couple of hundred dollars per signup."
Luke: "I hear he's got more money than anybody in the industry."
Brad: "That wouldn't surprise me.
"About the GIA, I think our business is too fragmented to ever work towards one common goal."
Luke: "Why is Serge Birbrair still posting on Netpond?"
Brad: "Serge is retired. He has more money in the bank than these guys who are still in business. It's fun for him. That was his home for a couple of years. Now he likes to come back and have fun with people.
"Serge is a very smart guy. Serge is brilliant. And he just likes to play with people. I have a lot of respect for Serge. People think that Serge and I aren't friends. That's the furthest thing from the truth. We're about to take a vacation together."
Evan Horowitz from Xpays.com tells Luke: "Our business is exploding. In the last five days, we're averaging over a thousand joins a day. I have three of the top ten internet portals in the world doing cost acquisition partnerships with us. All of them have kicked off... Sales are through the roof and I've got this putz wasting my time.
"We originally licensed this content... Brad brought Fresh Photos for...$40,000. And the day Brad bought it, I emailed Brad Seychelle (sp?) at Internet Supply [who sold FreshPhotos.com to Brad] and Ron Cohen and Howard Perkins, and I said, guys, this is a big mistake. Everything this guy does turns into litigation or some sort of a war. I wish you hadn't taken Fresh Photos and given it to Brad. It's like putting a silk hat on a pig.
"When we did some big traffic deals and some big domain deals with Internet Supply, they owned Fresh Photos at that time. And they threw in six CDs of Fresh Photos [content] with a five site license, only there's no copy of the license anywhere. Fresh Photos doesn't have it.
"I called Internet Supply and talked to Howard Perkins while he still owned Fresh Photos. I said, dude, I have a webmaster publication, AVN, non-nude, no nipples, no sex, I need girls to put around our logo in AVN. They said, hold on one second. He gets back on the phone and says, Evan, no problem. You can use those [photos] in a webmaster publication like AVN. So for eight months or more, we were using the photos in a webmaster trade publication. I.Supply has no problem...
"Brad takes over the company [FreshPhotos.com] and somewhere in the mix, ISupply didn't provide all of the documentation for all of the licensees. Brad was going to honor any existing contract. When he didn't have a contract, Brad, in my opinion, saw this as an opportunity to take advantage of the situation...
"Fortunately, for XPays and our print ads, Vivid Video let us go through their chrome room and they gave us 30 ultra high resolution pictures of Kobe Tai and Taylor Hayes and Jenteal and all their big stars.
"As soon as Brad said, don't use these [images] in print, we're like, f---, we don't want to use these in print. We can use other images. Why would we want to take other changes on something that costs a pittance? We're not a content company. We don't own any pay sites.
"Today Brad started badmouthing the GIA. JoeE is on the board and he is promoting a meeting where we are going to invite the world's top webmasters who care to come to the GIA and see what our vision is for the GIA and see where the GIA is going and how it benefits them and how it benefits the industry.
"On the boards, Brad is calling every member of the GIA except for one, a scumbag. He's calling our parties drug infested parties. This has nothing to do with the business at hand. He's calling me all kinds of names.
"Basically, anybody who is anybody is at our parties. They're sweet. We've been doing them since Montreal two years ago. Our parties are not cancelled. We only said they were cancelled because Brad keeps trying to get on to the VIP List and instead of telling him no, I keep telling him it's cancelled.
"Brad's trying to interfere with our business. He's definitely defamating me and slandering me personally. He's aggravated almost everybody who matters in the adult internet. Michael and I are good Jewish boys. Xpays is a big company. We run an honest business. We have never failed to pay out on time. We've always had honest reporting. Our network is unique. Xpays has been in the top 100 adult sites for a year.
"The Xpays.com works is that we take a customized version of the best sites on the internet. The best means integrity in the advertising, meaning, that what they say is there is there. It is editorially approved by us. We customize the ads and host them ourselves. The way we customize the ads is to remove any external links. So if there's a Viagra link, we'll brush it out. Everything is to push the user towards a join. If they don't join, they'll get an exit console that rotates through different sites. We're doing a thousand joins a day.
"Brad wrote me an email claiming that his blood relative is a DEA agent in Las Vegas and he was joking in the email about getting his cousin involved. Also, I got a couple of calls from concerned webmasters who'd heard Brad talking about our parties as being "crack infested" when really our parties are just food infested, beverage infested and great people infested.
"We're doing deals with Yahoo-like portals... We are the exclusive pay per performance ad partner for several portals that have been doing everything on clicks and impressions. They came to me. They're local companies.
"They put up our banners like a standard Xpays affiliate and they learned that they made more money on a rent share with us, getting paid like an affiliate, than the money they made on impressions and clicks."
Luke: "Are you part of the GIA?"
Evan: "Yes, and Brad is not. I'm one of the original members. Our bylaws and structure are now in place. The GIA was formed by the top adult companies. It was formed because the adult internet had reached a maturation stage where you need a trade association. We've retained McDermott, Will and Emery as the attorneys. I'm on a subcommittee with JoeE and Frank Panuccio. We're recruiting new members. I do big business with JoeE. I do more than 500 joins a day with him."
Luke: "What do you think of AOL suing CEN?"
Evan: "It is a source of great concern. I think it is very depressing that AOL is going to go after the affiliate programs when it is a well known fact that... any affiliate network, because of the way model works, you can give instant gratification to a scammer. Because anyone can sign up...
"I'm screening everyone on the way in. I'm killing accounts if the phone number doesn't work. I kill it. If the email address is bogus, I kill it. If the Social Security number is bogus, anything that looks suspicious, then we kill the account. But what happens is that these guys sign up, then they spam. We kill the account. It's a big pain in the ass. It requires a great deal of labor to administrate all that...
"The way to get around it is to run a good double opt-in email program. You don't get the complaints.
"The reason that Netpond sucks so bad is that it is an insecure medium. You have people posting under ten different names. It's just fraught with fraud and forgery and bulls---. Actually, a few months ago, we caught Brad Shaw forging an email... He said it was from me and that I had sent it to Greg Enders, one of his employees. I never sent the email. And it was a threat. He was trying to damage my business by making it look like I was threatening him. You don't see me pissing with Brad. You don't see me pissing on Netpond. You go to Netpond every day. It's half your site's content.
"When JoeE is trying to get webmasters excited about the GIA, I support that 100%. And I don't support someone coming in bashing every member of a trade association.
"He did tell me at a party in December that he was shaving webmasters. He was laughing about it. I have witnesses. And that probably made him bitter about us.
"We have no paysites. We have no billing. We have no content. We're an advertising agency in the software business. We have a very hot product in Xpays. It's a hot system. It's a hot reporting model. It's so hot that companies [like Vivid] license our software from us."
Luke: "Why wouldn't people just put up banner ads sending their traffic straight to the different paysites? Why go through your Xpays.com system?"
Evan: "It's difficult for me to give you a concise answer because I don't want to say anything negative about the very folks whose affiliate networks we're promoting through Xpays. We have a unique set up.
"I can see why Brad would resent us. He doesn't have any of our successes."
Evan Horowitz Interview 2 Evan 3 Evan 4
7/2/01
Brad Shaw vs Jenna Jameson's Boyfriend Jay
Webmaster Brad Shaw writes: Luke, I am must say you coverage of the IA2000 show was disappointing. I figured you would be on top of all the gossip, such as how Jay [aka Justin Sterlin], Jenna's Fiancée threaten to "get rid of me" only to be carried off by one of his cronies.
Forest writes on Netpond: Brad..i dont care what anyone says... Your cool in my book for standing up to that pussy of jenna's how far up her ass was he?
FearZeus writes: Lukey, Let me tell you the truth about the Brad Shaw incident…..Forget Jay, Jenna, and Meni for a second. I have no stake in this, so what I observed was the total truth. I was the so-called "Jay's bodyguard" that Brad Shaw is talking about. I am a close personal friend of Jay's and Jenna's. And yes I happen to be a big guy….but Jay needing a bodyguard??? For a loompa, oompa?? How f---ing hilarious is that?? Hey asshole, I was there for the whole thing!!! All Jay wanted to do was to have a civilized conversation with you. Wanted to know why would you trash him and the site for NO REASON at all??? And instead of coming up with an answer that makes sense, you reply was, "That's who I am." What Jay was trying to HELP you understand…was that in this business….the "porn" business….internet or not….that one day you will insult the wrong person with the wrong kind of people….and you will disappear!!! Not that he was threatening you!!!
He was telling you that maybe you should reconsider your business approach. It doesn't make sense pissing people off….it just might come back to biting you in the ass!!! So Jay and I are about to walk away, and this Danny Devito meatball yells out, "Don't talk s--- what you can't back up!!!" I didn't know whether to punch the s--- out of this kid or stop Jay from smacking him around!!! Now I don't know if Jay would even bother touching him but I didn't want to take the chance and I stepped in front of Jay just in case. I have to remember that anything we do is a reflection on Jenna. Later, in front of the Venetian, this asian guy who works for Brad Shaw approached US, and HE started to ask US about the incident that happened earlier. We calmly explained about Brad Shaws lack of business communication skills. This asian guy kept saying, "Why can't we get along….let's all make money together??" And I laughed and told him "How can you make business with a potential client when you are berating, and insulting them in public on the internet like that?? That's it!!! That was the extent of the conversation with that guy.
Than Brad Shaw claims later we harassed one of his workers??? Brad Shaw….you want to know who you are?? You're that fat, short kid in high school who never got laid, always had a parent's note excusing you from Gym class, and cursing the jocks, and cheerleaders under your breath. Looking in the mirror saying to yourself, "One day I'm going to make it big….and when I do, I will teach them all who is laughing now!!" You know Brad, sounds like a great ABC after school special….but what you are forgetting, is that you are living in the real world. A world that has it's good side but then it also has it's evil side. The trick to living a good, healthy, abundant life, is to spend as much time as possible on the good side of the world. But the business that you are in Brad is in a world where you never know what could be hiding, or coming around the corner. So you try to walk as straight as you can…..and be as RESPECTFUL as you can!!! Because in that side of the world……you never know what can happen!!! Jay was trying to help you understand that. Instead of listening and learning….you were hoping to be hit and cash in from a lawsuit. I wish nothing but the best of luck to you. God knows in this world…we all need it!!!!
Brad Shaw writes on Netpond: Meni, is your neck sore from the leash you were wearing all week? The one coming out of the Jenna crews ass? ;-) BTW, why does a big tough guy like Jay need to walk around with a bodyguard. I can understand why Jenna would need security, but Jay? He afraid I am going to eat him for lunch? Maybe all that bleach damaged his brain.
Suitcase Pimp writes on Netpond: latest scoop from the show jay the bleach blonde stud of jenna jaminson, tried to have a throw down with brad shaw. i had a friend in the next booth tell me the whole thing. brad stood his ground while jay back down, i guess he is not a fighter after all. who will do business with a asshole like that? anyone remember fantasyman, rb, joee ever trying to fight someone. jay = class act
Meni@ClubJenna.com writes: Luke, Jay will talk to you if you want when he gets back. This is a f---ing joke. If Brad wants to fight Jay it will be over in 2 seconds. Jay got pulled away from hitting Brad. Thats the best thing that happened to Brad the whole show. Luke you got ties to the porn biz, ask people who know, Jay, "Jusin", "Ted Fine" How much of a bad ass he is. You think Jenna will be with a pussy? How stupid is Brad?
Meni writes on Netpond: Brad, are you kidding me? Leash? I work for Clubjenna. You fire [porn star] Alana [Evans] for showing up 10 minutes AFTER Celeste did. Well Tonda fired her. Was she upset cuz little Brad in your pants went rock hard for Alana on Monday? Dude, don't date your employees, BAD. Have your ex=girlfriend work for you, might not be the best strategy. Why do you have to post all this crap AFTER the show? Jay's buddy is Clay, Clay was doing security for Jenna. Clay is the guy 6'5" 240 lbs, lean, dark hair, goatee. If anyone at the show saw him, you will remember him. Vivid booth behind Jenna. You might be thinking of Joe, from NY, who is Jay's friend who was walking around too. Jay doesn't have a bodyguard. This Brad vs Jay thing is a joke. Jay talked you, and if you want to settle it another way. Good luck. Have fun.
Meni replies: Brad you said Tonda fired them. Celeste did not get fired and she was late too. Alana was the only girl who guys recognized. Telling her to the out of her room real nice. Next time don't use a Matrix girl for Fresh Photos booth. do the math
Brad Shaw writes on Netpond: Meni, the models were fired because they were over an hour late and showed up looking like crap, obviously cracked out on something. I do not care to have people like that representing my company.
Meni, if there is one thing I hate, it is boyfriends hanging around while a girl is trying to work. It can be a distraction when a girl is trying to give a dance in my booth, or suck a guy off on a shoot. Her BF stood in front of the booth all day, talking with her half the time. I tried to explain to him I had 2 people hired for security, but he would not let her out of his sights. Typical suit case pimp bf, that is why we do not allow BF's on the sets of our shoots.
Meni, the truth is what really pissed off Jay was my accurate pointing out of he may know the video business very well, but as far as the Internet business, he might as well by the Internet Lunch Box off the infomercial. Anyone recall Jenna's first site that took half an hour to load, was all flash and was reported to convert at a whopping 1:2500 on type in traffic? Good thing they hired MikeW.
And talking about handling things, going after my employees is super pussy work. If you have a problem with me, talk to me. I am very easy to find, I hide from nobody. Then when I confront you about it at the vivid booth, you deny it.
Meni writes: going after you employees? I was on E i wasn't mad at anyone Greg asked me what the Jay vs Brad thing was. Jay talked to Greg Greg waves to me the rest of the show. Serge, you were not there. Jay sat with Brad and talked for 10 minuts. Lectured him Jay walked away, Brad said something. Jay went up to Brad, Joe pulled Jay back. Later, someone at Brad's booth calls Jay a wimp. Again, Jay is not there. boy that real intellect. I do not tell Jay, because I don't want to see anything happen to Brad or his friends. Serge its simple, Brad insults, Jay about many things. Brad doesn't know Jay. Why is Brad talking about Jay? Cuz he thinks he'll be more webmasters signed up for SIC CASh with all his posts. Genius isn't it
Brad, do you want to have jay hit you, then you can sue him? as for his career. Over 700 movies shot, and his own company. And his phone biz. Why do you ask? Does he ask about how you make money?
Brad writes: Meni, Jay comes after me, I hit him in the wallet! He should learn how to handle things in a cival manner, rather than threatening to kill someone. If he wants to kill me, bring it on, what can I do about it.
Jeff Miller from SunupMedia writes: I understand, it is nothing personal between Brad and Jay, it is just business and of course I can respect that. I have seen it so many times before. Like the time when Pert plus shampoo came out and they started advertising that they were better than Head and Sholders shampoo. Oh man, you should have seen the CEO of Johnson and Johnson just wail on the Pert guy. I bet now he wishes he had a friend like Jay has to hold him back. Or better yet that time that Charmin came out with their new line and they showed that their rolls had 27% more paper than those cockholsters over at Northern. Its a damn good thing that the Charmin people travel with some extra rolls, they sure needed them to clean up the blood after the Northern guy showed up at their booth.
You see Meni, I don't need to hear anyones side of the story. Your friend Jay had no business showing up at Brad's booth, which Brad paid for, to start s---. It was not the time, nor the place. And the fact that Jay's friend had to hold him back from hitting Brad really adds credence to the fact that Brad is a very successful business person and Jay just appears to be a thug who got lucky and married a hot chick.
7/3/01
Brad Shaw Seeks Jenna Jameson Content
Webmaster Brad Shaw writes: Luke, I am looking to buy rights to photo and video content of Jenna Jameson. If anyone has this sort of content, and owns the rights to sell please contact me at brad@shawinternet.com . I will pay top dollar, cash.
Brad Shaw writes on Netpond: "Jenna, nothing against you, simply the people who are running your web operations and your bf who threatened to have me killed. I can not imagine threatening to make people "disappear" is good for business. This is not the Sopranos. You have the ability to make millions on the web, I hope it happens, but from my dealings with who you have running your stuff, it is far from a sure thing."
Jenna Jameson writes on Netpond: "Brad, Lets get something straight... You opened a can of worms by posting comments about my operation and the people that work with me (Meni and Jay). Now, I don't know what you were trying to prove, but, myself and co-workers took your attitude as an insult, which it was. The things you said were definately uncalled for, just because we decided not to do business with you. Do you say these things about everyone that doesn't do what you tell them to do? I understand that you have nothing against me (only that you think I'm a has-been). Which I will pay no attention to, because everyone knows that is totally untrue. I just don't appreciate all this pumped up talk about my fiance'. You know good and well, he never backed down from you, nor would he ever. I thought since you claim to be so business-minded, you never would have played into this so-called scene that was made at your booth. Why don't you just relax, and let it go. It would be in both of our best interests. Also, in the future, I would appreciate it if you tried being more respectful to me, my fiance and everyone that works for me. You attract more bees with honey than vinegar!"
Brad Shaw writes on Netpond: Jenna, I never said he backed down. I believe he wanted to beat the s--- out of me, but his "bogyguard" pulled him away. Me, I could car a less if he took a swing at me, all in a days work, life goes on. Sure he could take a swing at me, but that would not be smart, and I do not think Jay is that stupid.
I think YOU need to have a talk with him and let him know that coming over and threatening me will not work, just puts more fire under me. I do not appeciate his threat to kill me, therefore I will do what I can to be a thorn in his side until I recieve a public apology from Jay for lecturing me, then threatening to make me "disappear". Business is business, but death threats are not fun and games.
Jenna Jameson writes on Netpond: I see that your only cocern is the incident at internext. Have you said anything about the comments that you made? Why do you feel this personal vendeta? Makes me wonder. Why are you saying you are buying all Jenna material??? You have to understand, when you try to "put a thorn in Jay's side" YOU ARE PUTTING ONE IN MINE!!!!
I don't think you want to have a problem with me. I don't have time for all this kindergarden crap. Trust me, Jay wasn't threatening to kill you, he just was trying to convey to you, that you need to keep a lower profile when it comes to clubjenna.com and jennacash.com. They are of NO concern to you. PERIOD.
Brad, just a heads-up,That wasn't Jay's bodyguard... He [FearZeus@aol.com) is one of his best friends from NY. Please, don't get him involved.... Not a good idea! :)
Serge Birbrair writes: No s---, he probably is a friend of Tony Soprano, no less, scary stuff you posting, Jenna.
Jenna Jameson writes on Netpond: "Brad, Just saw your post on Luke F-rd. You want to fall into the category of one of the webmasters that rip girls off. I want you to understand something, I have worked for eight years to build my name up to where it is. I have just begun to get my feet wet when it comes to the internet. There are a lot of pirates out there using my name and likeness to make money off of something I worked so hard for. Why would you want to join them. Just to let you know, if you decide to go on with your dirty little deeds, my name is trade marked. I do not stand for anyone , I MEAN ANYONE, ripping me off. Do me a favor, rethink what you are doing. Trust me, you want me as a friend."
Brad Shaw writes on Ynottoppond.com: " Lets not forget how this all started and why Brad is so bitter. Jenna and her company wasted my time, and negotiated in bad faith on a business deal. Basically I feel they were picking my brain and had no intention of doing any business, too bad I found this out over a month after my company spent countless hours on developing a project. BTW, we are not the only company they did this to. Call it sour grapes, call it whatever ,I do not like to have my chain yanked and my time wasted."
Serge writes: "Dear God, please bless us with a NEW super porn star! little bit less tits and little bit more brains will be just fine!"
Brad writes: "Jenna, I am just collecting images and video. Who knows what I am going to do with them. Wicked sure looks like they have some good ideas though. As for illegal, of course I always consult my lawyers. I am not as dumb as I look."
Jenna Jameson responds: "Please don't twist my words, I am not threatening anyone! I weigh 107 pounds, for gods sake! I don't want Jay's friend [FearZeus@aol.com, boyhood friend of Rob Spallone from the same Queens crew] involved only because he is a family man, his wife is expecting in two weeks. As far as tag lines go, I am not here trying to promote, just clear things up. I think we all need a group hug."
Meni wrtes: "First off we did not negotiate WITH YOU. Your Boy RON, who's GONE talked to Jay a couple of times. You wasted Jay's time I guess too. What did he learn from you? Nothing. Countless hours? hee hee, what a joke. You wanted Jenna video to STREAM You didn't get it Your are PISSED simple We spoke to someone, WAY bigger than you. And guess what, he loves us and We aren't doing anything with him. So who's the Bitch? you are Brad."
Brad Shaw writes: "I am not afraid of you kickin my ass, but after what Meni told me Jay did to some guy, something about almost killing him, I am scared of him. Guess Meni was trying to shut me up. Only thing that shuts me up is food, send me lobsters, daily. Switch to $30 with trial memberships I would even send traficc, and you could easily get 500+ sign-ups a day. But they may be the problem, lack of capital for a few months til recurrings kick in."
Brad Shaw writes: "Meni, what was the point of telling me that the last guy who open his mouth to Jay had to be helicoptered to the hospital? Seems that you are trying to intimidate me. Of course did not work well. Jenna, put a muzzle on your people, they directly reflect on you!"
"Meni was just speaking the truth... Nothing wrong with that. Listen, I don't muzzle people, that's why they like working with me. Maybe you should muzzle yourself and drop 30 or 40 pounds. j/k hehehehehehehe."
Brad Shaw writes: "Me being fat only reflects poorly on me, Meni being a big mouth wise guy, relfects poorly on you. It does. As soon as Jay apologizes, I will let it slide."
Jenna Jameson responds: "I understand where you are coming from Serge, sometimes people lose their tempers, which parties on BOTH sides did. I'm sure Brad is a great business man. He just needs to stop blowing things out of proportion. I am a great business woman also, i wouldn't be where I am if I weren't. But, I am six months into my first internet venture. I am sure Brad wasn't making multi-millions when he first started. Just give me time. World domination will be mine."
20. What's the meanest prank you've ever played on anyone in this biz?
I have pulled many pranks. A recent one sticks out in my mind. Meat from Netpond has a hard on for me, always has for some reason. Jealous hater. I see him in Vegas this Jan. I already knew that JBM won the XBiz award for chat board of the year by then. So I tell him, I heard that Netpond won the award, congrats. And asked him if he is going to be there to accept. He about s--- his pants and started telling everyone standing around him. He bought it. So when I won the award, I hear some guy yelling out "wanker" with an accent, sounded like Meat.
21. What is your biggest regret business related.
For the first few years of my biz I made a few mistakes.
-I stopped generating my own traffic, and went 100% into buying traffic
-I worried about other peoples business practices, when I should have taken that energy to be making $
-I was too conservative, and did not take enough chances pushing the limits smartly. The guys who got mega rich in the biz, pushed, pushed, pushed. And I do not see any of them in jail.25. What's the deal with you and [Steve] Lightspeed?
I had the pleasure, or should I say displeasure of sitting next to Steve on a flght from PHX to Miami several years ago. I had many preconceived notions about him, and it turned out, they were all correct. I had heard crazy stories about him and drugs, women, etc etc at shows. He told me why he got in the biz, and his biz philosophies, he would not shut up. He then went on to tell me that I do not know how to manage my sales staff, that I do not let them have fun, blah blah blah.
From that point on, I put him on my idiot list. I threw a few jabs at him on the boards, and he ran off like a little sissy girl to our mutual friends begging them to ask me to stop picking on him. From that point on, it was open season. Lightspeed has done well, the concept and the sites are very good. But, Steve is an idiot businessman. For instance, he overpays his girls to the point it is an industry joke. But I guess he pays extra so he can bang em. I can only imagine how many millions he has blown, and left on the table. Or snorted up his nose...
Bottom line is that he put himself up on a pedestal, and I am just a reality check for him. One day, he will thank me.
I think VOD is overhyped. There is no magic revenue producing stream. Times are tough. My suggestion is to put many eggs in many basket. Do not get caught with all your eggs in one basket.
JoeE- I miss JoeE. Best story of JoeE was when I was in NO for a show at the casino. I see JoeE crying, walk over and ask him whats up. He has about $500k in winnings in his hands, and he is crying about his gf. I gave him a hug, we bonded. Shame what went down with him and CEN, but JoeE also made some poor decisions along the way.
If I was an employee, I would be concerned with outsourcing. Everyone is moving staff overseas with smaller and smaller profit margins.
Visa/MC are always my #1 concern. As well as the lack of more than two viable third party processors.
Brad Shaw Interview
2002-10-18 19:07:15
Questions for Brad Shaw: I hear that you are semi-retired from Shaw Internet? What are the biggest changes in the biz in the last 15 months (when I retired)? How do you think the new VISA regulations will affect the biz? Why don't you fear taking on someone as powerful as Ron Levi (Fantasyman)?
Brad Shaw of Shawinternet.com replies: I am not retired at all. It was merely a joke on the boards. I keep a lower profile then I did before, but I am far from retired. I have been spending a lot of my time overseeing production of video for our reality sites as this is where we are making a big push currently. We did 50 hardcore video shoots last month, may be a record? I am also lucky to have an outstanding team of employees who do an excellent job which enables me to work in the background on developing new business for the company.
Biggest changes I have seen is the continues thinning out of the business. Many people leaving, or taking a much lower profile to disassociate themselves from the adult side.
Many people have simply gone out of business. Profits are not what they once were for most. For those who were in the biz for partying as much as for real business, the wake up call is well underway. There are still a few idiots you see around at shows partying 24/7 who have no business sense and have made some $, but I expect them to be gone within a year. Those days are over, and I for one am pleased to see it.
Also spam is now readily acceptable way to generate traffic. If you do not have email traffic these days, it is hard to turn a profit. I would say 50%+ of joins are from email overall.
I do not see the VISA regulations having much of an affect. The small fees they are now charging will help to weed out some of the smaller sites and fly by night operations. I figure if you can not afford $1000 fee, you should not be in business.
VISA also hopes they can ensure the people on their "do not process" for list are out of business, but this will simply not work People can hide behind partners, shell corporations, etc. Frankly I would love to see VISA shut these folks down as they have done tremendous harm to the business, but I do not see it happening. Maybe you can get your hands on this list of people VISA says can not process. I have heard a few names on it, and they are people we all know.
Why should I be afraid of Ron Levi [Fantasyman]? He is washed up and has been in this business. People used to say if you crossed FM, he would kill your business. Well I guess those days are over as he has pretty much lost any of the little influence he had left. I would not put his company (which I can not recall the name of since they recently changed names for some reason?) in the top 20 as far as revenue on the adult internet. Even since his partner left... CE has become a much smaller player. If they do 500 to 1000 joins a day anymore, I would be surprised. Surf around, nobody sends them traffic because their payout rate is very sub par. It would not surprise me to see FM walk away from this biz shortly as he realizes he is no longer a big fish in the sea, he is becoming more of a minnow every day. I think he has too much pride to let that happen, and will simply exit stage left in his purple prowler.
AOL Sues Cyber Entertainment NetworK Over SpamAOL has filed a $150 million suit against Netvision Audiotext dba Cyber Entertainment Network in the United States district court for the Eastern district of Virginia, Alexandria division. (Civil Action 99-1186-A)
Persons named in the suit include CEN owners John J. Bennett Jr, and Joseph Elkind, as well as Robert L. Atkinson, James Cattanach, Tim Perkins, Tracy Rizzutello, Kyle Vernon and others.
I interviewed CEN part-owner Joe Elkind Thursday afternoon.
Luke: What's this about an AOL lawsuit against the Cyber Entertainment Network?
JoeE: I have no idea what you're talking about. I have not been served by anything and that is a fact.
Luke: I will shoot you the URL of a JPG of a civil action supposedly against you by AOL.
JoeE: All I am saying is that I have not been served.
Luke: Do you have any idea what this is about?
JoeE: Yeah, I will tell you real quick what it is about. AOL is going to sue one of the big companies there is in the adult business, which is us, and if we don't squash the lawsuit they're going to sue every other adult affiliate program and every webmaster. We're the ones who are going to have to take it on the head again just like we did with UU.net, and squash this thing. This is unfounded because we never spam.
Webmasters might spam. We cut them off. We terminate them as soon as we find out without pay.
I had the flu. I was puking for two days straight.
[Lee Noga writes on Netpond: Was reading the L-ke Ford site, and I cannot stand misinformation, so let my anal rententive self correct this myth: JoeE may have puked for 2 days but the FLU is respiratory and not stomach inflicted in adults. Nope, there is no such thing as a "Stomach FLU". There are viruses that can cause these symptoms but it ain't the flu....]
Print that Brad Shaw is a dick. Everybody agrees. He wants to see the GIA [Global Internet Alliance] fail because he can't make it in business. He's not as smart as the rest of the guys. He blasts other people because that's his way of getting his name and ego out there instead of being helpful to the industry and working with people. He just wants to blast people. Not share an opinion, he just wants to blast people and talk personally at them. Sharing an opinion and blasting people personally are two different things.
He can go f--- himself. I'm going to punch him in the face at the Vegas show.
Luke: I thought he was a friend of yours.
JoeE: If you can't hit your friends, who can you hit?
Evan from Xpays provides a rejoinder. He says that Shaw's comments have no validity. It appears the two of them will fight this out in court.
Brad Shaw tells Luke: "I saw JoeE posting on Netpond how he has a plan to save our industry. He's trying to make himself look like a superhero and if you still want to be in business in a year, you better get in line and get along with him and go to his little meeting. Originally I wasn't aware he was talking about the GIA because he wasn't putting a name with it. And then I found out he was basically speaking for the GIA. And the problem I had was that he was trying to make himself out like he was trying to save the whole business.
"The truth is he is only out for himself. He's not out to help anyone else. Noone will speak the truth so I figured I had to put my two cents in.
"He's been posting for the past couple of weeks. About a meeting... I just got fed up with it. He's probably not going to fool most people but I wanted to make sure that he didn't threaten anyone. He's out for his own interests. He's trying to make himself look good like he's trying to bring everybody together and save the business.
"JoeE should be spending his time getting his own house in order... That goes to my beef with the GIA. These guys are out for their own interests and they should just get their own houses in order like I have done. I have spent the last three months, especially after the FTC, RJB stuff, making sure my own house is in order."
Luke: "What is the GIA?"
Brad: "That's a good question. As far as I know, they're trying to put together an organization to represent the adult internet. I guess it was founded by eight guys, the bigger guys in our business."
Luke: "Ron Levi, JoeE, RB..."
Brad: "I have some information as to what their goals are and I am not interested. I attended one of their meetings and I looked around the table, and I asked 'Brad, do you want to be associated with all of these people?' There was more than one person there that I would not my name associated with."
Luke: "Have you heard anything about the GIA planning to sue VISA?"
Brad: "I heard about it a couple of months ago but recently I have't learned anything about it. They're trying to launch it [GIA] to webmasters at the show in January... I would encourage anyone to go listen to what they have to say. I feel it is too little too late. With all the unscrupulous billing practices that go on and all the other scams that go on, it is too little too late.
"The government has just started coming into our business... If these guys present themselves as our leaders, they're the ones the government will go after first."
Luke: "What did you think of the FTC crackdown on RJB Telcom?"
Brad: "We all knew that at some point there was going to be a crackdown on someone. But never in a million years I would never guessed it was RJB. If it was any other company, they would've folded. It says a lot for RJB that they've persevered this long and in the end, I think they're going to come out with a clean bill of health. It's obviously a difficult situation for them. I don't feel that they have ever done anything wrong.
"I say there are probably a couple of people in this business that run things 100% legit. They're [RJB] is one of them."
Luke: "What do you think of this AOL civil suit against CEN?"
Brad: "We all knew it was coming. They're not going to be the only one. AOL has been investigating things along that line for a year and a half. And I guess they decided to go after CEN because they are one of the bigger companies... I wouldn't want to be on the other end of a lawsuit from AOL."
Luke: "What is going on between you and XPays.com?"
Brad: "For the past couple of months we've been trying to hammer out a settlement over some images that they used of ours without proper licensing. They took some of our images and put them in a magazine [ads in AVNOnline magazine], which is against the license of the image. They're only for internet use.
"We've played a lot of phone tag. About two months ago, I spoke with Michael at Xpays [the partner of Evan]. And we agreed that during the negotiations, there would be no bad blood between us. That I would keep my mouth shut and he would keep his mouth shut.
"About a month ago, I got an email from them saying: 'Thanks Brad. We're cancelling our party in Las Vegas because we've been told that you narc'd us to the police.' And my response was, 'Narc'd you for what? What are you doing at the party that you are so afraid of?' And I guess they had created in their heads that I had turned them into the authorites for running some drug laced party.
"Then today one of their partners [Evan] goes to the boards and starts running his mouth. I said, screw it. I'm not going to negotiate with them anymore. They're in the wrong. I'm going to turn it over to my attorney and they're going to lose. They used images without proper licensing."
Luke: "What kind of December are adult webmasters having?"
Brad: "As far as traffic, things are good. But as far as the state of business, a lot of people are really dependent on RJB and a lot of people are really nervous about what is going to happen with that. And after looking at who got elected president, especially the Attorney General [John Ashcroft], a lot of people are scared. I think the people who are worried are the people who didn't have their house in order.
"There are a lot of people who did not have good Christmases. The money is not what it was a year ago. A lot of these big programs are not paying what they used to pay. They still tell you that they're paying what they used to pay but they're not. The average webmaster is not making the same amount of money. I know smaller webmasters who were making $10,000 a month who are now making $3000 a month.
"The bigger want to be big, that's why they've all joined together to form this alliance. That's why there will be a bigger gap between the big webmasters and the smaller webmasters and there are going to be very few left in the middle."
Luke: "If webmaster affiliate programs say they're still paying out the same amount of money, how do they get away with paying less?"
Brad: "Some of them are scrubbing their credit card databases harder so it is harder to get a join. There are programs that only pay you on memberships that actually convert to $35 a month memberships. You might get 100 signups, but only 50 of them convert. So you only get paid on 50 signups. And I am sure there is some out-and-out shaving [where joins are not counted] going on someplaces. We send most of our traffic to MaxCash RJB. That's the reason I send it there, because I'm confident there is no funny business going on there. But it is getting harder to get the traffic to convert. Also because the surfers are becoming smarter. And there's so much free s--- out there, it is difficult to charge someone $30 a month.
"I read that quote on your website that JoeE was going to punch me in the face. Yeah. I think that says a lot about JoeE. He talks a big game, but when it comes down to it, he's usually with a 6'8" body guard. So I don't think JoeE's going to be punching anyone in the face. Especially me.
"I seem to really get under his skin. He talks about how I am a failure. At the end of the month, I bet I put more money in my pocket than JoeE puts in his pocket."
Luke: "But his company is huge?"
Brad: "He's a partner. He's got 70 employees, I've got six. He blows a lot more money than I blow. On one trip to Vegas, he can blow $200,000."
Luke: "How can you spend $200,000 in one weekend in Vegas?"
Brad: "Gambling, hookers, drugs... I'm not saying JoeE does drugs. Just talking in general. And feeling the need to impress all of your friends. Take care of all your friends.
"It's not uncommon. I saw something published on your website about the last show in November, about kids spending $13,000 in a strip club. That's nothing. Those are the smalltime webmasters. It's just all to impress each other. They've got to have the $5000 bottle of wine. They've got to have all the strippers and hookers hanging out [with them]. Some of these companies at the show in January will spend upwards of a million dollars.
"We're spending six figures plus. But they're throwing money away. We have a 30 by 30 two story booth. We've got six models. We're flying out Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf from the Howard Stern show. I'll bring out my staff. There goes $100,000 plus right there. But the difference is that we will sell content at the show to offset our costs. A lot of these guys are selling nothing."
Luke: "I thought you and JoeE were friends?"
Brad: "I would consider JoeE a friend. It's an interesting business that we're in. If I was in South Florida, I would call up JoeE and we would go out to dinner. It's just that we have differing philosophies of business. Outside of business, JoeE is Joe. Inside business he's JoeE Money, where all that matters is how much money he makes. Anything to make a dollar, that's his bottom line."
Luke: "What do you think of his celeb site?"
Brad: "I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole but when JoeE evaluates his risk, he feels that the money is worth the risk. Who knows the legality of a celeb site? Is Britney Spears going to sue everyone? And the millions they are making off the sites, obviously they feel the up site is worth more than the down side. I'm not out to make a quick buck.
"There are also the fake bestiality sites."
Luke: "Even Vivid is promoting that."
Brad: "I think they advertise that... Vivid doesn't run any of those sites. But a few other companies do. Even some that I am friendly with. I wouldn't send traffic to those sites. Babenet has several celebrity sites and several fake bestiality sites."
Luke: "What is a fake bestiality site?"
Brad: "To the surfer, it looks like bestiality. They're really not sure until they join. Then they join and it's a naked chick sitting on the back of a horse. I don't think it is good for our business. I think it fools the surfers. When I first saw the sites, I thought they were bestiality sites. On a couple of them, real small at the bottom, they will say 'This is not a bestiality site.'"
Luke: "I think what our industry needs most is a full hardcore bestiality site with integrity."
Brad: "Plenty of those overseas. I think what our industry needs most is a big shakeout. I think our industry needs people to go out of business. I think our industry needs some people to run into trouble for doing some stupid things. And at the end, there will be some people standing and there will be some people not standing. There are several people who if they went out of business, I could care less. And then there are people like RJB, who if they have problems, I would do anything for those guys.
"You've seen a big trickle down effect from Yishai pulling out from buying all this traffic. And you've only seen the start of it. The free hosts are having financial troubles because he's not there anymore. And there is no one who can take his place because no one can take his place. No one can do what he did, make money off that traffic."
Luke: "He sent it all to Crescent?"
Brad: "I believe so. Obviously he was able to make money off the traffic. And no one else can make money off it. A couple of years ago, we bought some of the free host traffic off one of the larger free hosts and it converted one in 36,000 on our best converting site. That was a couple of hundred dollars per signup."
Luke: "I hear he's got more money than anybody in the industry."
Brad: "That wouldn't surprise me.
"About the GIA, I think our business is too fragmented to ever work towards one common goal."
Luke: "Why is Serge Birbrair still posting on Netpond?"
Brad: "Serge is retired. He has more money in the bank than these guys who are still in business. It's fun for him. That was his home for a couple of years. Now he likes to come back and have fun with people.
"Serge is a very smart guy. Serge is brilliant. And he just likes to play with people. I have a lot of respect for Serge. People think that Serge and I aren't friends. That's the furthest thing from the truth. We're about to take a vacation together."
Evan Horowitz from Xpays.com tells Luke: "Our business is exploding. In the last five days, we're averaging over a thousand joins a day. I have three of the top ten internet portals in the world doing cost acquisition partnerships with us. All of them have kicked off... Sales are through the roof and I've got this putz wasting my time.
"We originally licensed this content... Brad brought Fresh Photos for...$40,000. And the day Brad bought it, I emailed Brad Seychelle (sp?) at Internet Supply [who sold FreshPhotos.com to Brad] and Ron Cohen and Howard Perkins, and I said, guys, this is a big mistake. Everything this guy does turns into litigation or some sort of a war. I wish you hadn't taken Fresh Photos and given it to Brad. It's like putting a silk hat on a pig.
"When we did some big traffic deals and some big domain deals with Internet Supply, they owned Fresh Photos at that time. And they threw in six CDs of Fresh Photos [content] with a five site license, only there's no copy of the license anywhere. Fresh Photos doesn't have it.
"I called Internet Supply and talked to Howard Perkins while he still owned Fresh Photos. I said, dude, I have a webmaster publication, AVN, non-nude, no nipples, no sex, I need girls to put around our logo in AVN. They said, hold on one second. He gets back on the phone and says, Evan, no problem. You can use those [photos] in a webmaster publication like AVN. So for eight months or more, we were using the photos in a webmaster trade publication. I.Supply has no problem...
"Brad takes over the company [FreshPhotos.com] and somewhere in the mix, ISupply didn't provide all of the documentation for all of the licensees. Brad was going to honor any existing contract. When he didn't have a contract, Brad, in my opinion, saw this as an opportunity to take advantage of the situation...
"Fortunately, for XPays and our print ads, Vivid Video let us go through their chrome room and they gave us 30 ultra high resolution pictures of Kobe Tai and Taylor Hayes and Jenteal and all their big stars.
"As soon as Brad said, don't use these [images] in print, we're like, f---, we don't want to use these in print. We can use other images. Why would we want to take other changes on something that costs a pittance? We're not a content company. We don't own any pay sites.
"Today Brad started badmouthing the GIA. JoeE is on the board and he is promoting a meeting where we are going to invite the world's top webmasters who care to come to the GIA and see what our vision is for the GIA and see where the GIA is going and how it benefits them and how it benefits the industry.
"On the boards, Brad is calling every member of the GIA except for one, a scumbag. He's calling our parties drug infested parties. This has nothing to do with the business at hand. He's calling me all kinds of names.
"Basically, anybody who is anybody is at our parties. They're sweet. We've been doing them since Montreal two years ago. Our parties are not cancelled. We only said they were cancelled because Brad keeps trying to get on to the VIP List and instead of telling him no, I keep telling him it's cancelled.
"Brad's trying to interfere with our business. He's definitely defamating me and slandering me personally. He's aggravated almost everybody who matters in the adult internet. Michael and I are good Jewish boys. Xpays is a big company. We run an honest business. We have never failed to pay out on time. We've always had honest reporting. Our network is unique. Xpays has been in the top 100 adult sites for a year.
"The Xpays.com works is that we take a customized version of the best sites on the internet. The best means integrity in the advertising, meaning, that what they say is there is there. It is editorially approved by us. We customize the ads and host them ourselves. The way we customize the ads is to remove any external links. So if there's a Viagra link, we'll brush it out. Everything is to push the user towards a join. If they don't join, they'll get an exit console that rotates through different sites. We're doing a thousand joins a day.
"Brad wrote me an email claiming that his blood relative is a DEA agent in Las Vegas and he was joking in the email about getting his cousin involved. Also, I got a couple of calls from concerned webmasters who'd heard Brad talking about our parties as being "crack infested" when really our parties are just food infested, beverage infested and great people infested.
"We're doing deals with Yahoo-like portals... We are the exclusive pay per performance ad partner for several portals that have been doing everything on clicks and impressions. They came to me. They're local companies.
"They put up our banners like a standard Xpays affiliate and they learned that they made more money on a rent share with us, getting paid like an affiliate, than the money they made on impressions and clicks."
Luke: "Are you part of the GIA?"
Evan: "Yes, and Brad is not. I'm one of the original members. Our bylaws and structure are now in place. The GIA was formed by the top adult companies. It was formed because the adult internet had reached a maturation stage where you need a trade association. We've retained McDermott, Will and Emery as the attorneys. I'm on a subcommittee with JoeE and Frank Panuccio. We're recruiting new members. I do big business with JoeE. I do more than 500 joins a day with him."
Luke: "What do you think of AOL suing CEN?"
Evan: "It is a source of great concern. I think it is very depressing that AOL is going to go after the affiliate programs when it is a well known fact that... any affiliate network, because of the way model works, you can give instant gratification to a scammer. Because anyone can sign up...
"I'm screening everyone on the way in. I'm killing accounts if the phone number doesn't work. I kill it. If the email address is bogus, I kill it. If the Social Security number is bogus, anything that looks suspicious, then we kill the account. But what happens is that these guys sign up, then they spam. We kill the account. It's a big pain in the ass. It requires a great deal of labor to administrate all that...
"The way to get around it is to run a good double opt-in email program. You don't get the complaints.
"The reason that Netpond sucks so bad is that it is an insecure medium. You have people posting under ten different names. It's just fraught with fraud and forgery and bulls---. Actually, a few months ago, we caught Brad Shaw forging an email... He said it was from me and that I had sent it to Greg Enders, one of his employees. I never sent the email. And it was a threat. He was trying to damage my business by making it look like I was threatening him. You don't see me pissing with Brad. You don't see me pissing on Netpond. You go to Netpond every day. It's half your site's content.
"When JoeE is trying to get webmasters excited about the GIA, I support that 100%. And I don't support someone coming in bashing every member of a trade association.
"He did tell me at a party in December that he was shaving webmasters. He was laughing about it. I have witnesses. And that probably made him bitter about us.
"We have no paysites. We have no billing. We have no content. We're an advertising agency in the software business. We have a very hot product in Xpays. It's a hot system. It's a hot reporting model. It's so hot that companies [like Vivid] license our software from us."
Luke: "Why wouldn't people just put up banner ads sending their traffic straight to the different paysites? Why go through your Xpays.com system?"
Evan: "It's difficult for me to give you a concise answer because I don't want to say anything negative about the very folks whose affiliate networks we're promoting through Xpays. We have a unique set up.
"I can see why Brad would resent us. He doesn't have any of our successes."
Evan Horowitz Interview 2 Evan 3 Evan 4
7/2/01
Brad Shaw vs Jenna Jameson's Boyfriend Jay
Webmaster Brad Shaw writes: Luke, I am must say you coverage of the IA2000 show was disappointing. I figured you would be on top of all the gossip, such as how Jay [aka Justin Sterlin], Jenna's Fiancée threaten to "get rid of me" only to be carried off by one of his cronies.
Forest writes on Netpond: Brad..i dont care what anyone says... Your cool in my book for standing up to that pussy of jenna's how far up her ass was he?
FearZeus writes: Lukey, Let me tell you the truth about the Brad Shaw incident…..Forget Jay, Jenna, and Meni for a second. I have no stake in this, so what I observed was the total truth. I was the so-called "Jay's bodyguard" that Brad Shaw is talking about. I am a close personal friend of Jay's and Jenna's. And yes I happen to be a big guy….but Jay needing a bodyguard??? For a loompa, oompa?? How f---ing hilarious is that?? Hey asshole, I was there for the whole thing!!! All Jay wanted to do was to have a civilized conversation with you. Wanted to know why would you trash him and the site for NO REASON at all??? And instead of coming up with an answer that makes sense, you reply was, "That's who I am." What Jay was trying to HELP you understand…was that in this business….the "porn" business….internet or not….that one day you will insult the wrong person with the wrong kind of people….and you will disappear!!! Not that he was threatening you!!!
He was telling you that maybe you should reconsider your business approach. It doesn't make sense pissing people off….it just might come back to biting you in the ass!!! So Jay and I are about to walk away, and this Danny Devito meatball yells out, "Don't talk s--- what you can't back up!!!" I didn't know whether to punch the s--- out of this kid or stop Jay from smacking him around!!! Now I don't know if Jay would even bother touching him but I didn't want to take the chance and I stepped in front of Jay just in case. I have to remember that anything we do is a reflection on Jenna. Later, in front of the Venetian, this asian guy who works for Brad Shaw approached US, and HE started to ask US about the incident that happened earlier. We calmly explained about Brad Shaws lack of business communication skills. This asian guy kept saying, "Why can't we get along….let's all make money together??" And I laughed and told him "How can you make business with a potential client when you are berating, and insulting them in public on the internet like that?? That's it!!! That was the extent of the conversation with that guy.
Than Brad Shaw claims later we harassed one of his workers??? Brad Shaw….you want to know who you are?? You're that fat, short kid in high school who never got laid, always had a parent's note excusing you from Gym class, and cursing the jocks, and cheerleaders under your breath. Looking in the mirror saying to yourself, "One day I'm going to make it big….and when I do, I will teach them all who is laughing now!!" You know Brad, sounds like a great ABC after school special….but what you are forgetting, is that you are living in the real world. A world that has it's good side but then it also has it's evil side. The trick to living a good, healthy, abundant life, is to spend as much time as possible on the good side of the world. But the business that you are in Brad is in a world where you never know what could be hiding, or coming around the corner. So you try to walk as straight as you can…..and be as RESPECTFUL as you can!!! Because in that side of the world……you never know what can happen!!! Jay was trying to help you understand that. Instead of listening and learning….you were hoping to be hit and cash in from a lawsuit. I wish nothing but the best of luck to you. God knows in this world…we all need it!!!!
Brad Shaw writes on Netpond: Meni, is your neck sore from the leash you were wearing all week? The one coming out of the Jenna crews ass? ;-) BTW, why does a big tough guy like Jay need to walk around with a bodyguard. I can understand why Jenna would need security, but Jay? He afraid I am going to eat him for lunch? Maybe all that bleach damaged his brain.
Suitcase Pimp writes on Netpond: latest scoop from the show jay the bleach blonde stud of jenna jaminson, tried to have a throw down with brad shaw. i had a friend in the next booth tell me the whole thing. brad stood his ground while jay back down, i guess he is not a fighter after all. who will do business with a asshole like that? anyone remember fantasyman, rb, joee ever trying to fight someone. jay = class act
Meni@ClubJenna.com writes: Luke, Jay will talk to you if you want when he gets back. This is a f---ing joke. If Brad wants to fight Jay it will be over in 2 seconds. Jay got pulled away from hitting Brad. Thats the best thing that happened to Brad the whole show. Luke you got ties to the porn biz, ask people who know, Jay, "Jusin", "Ted Fine" How much of a bad ass he is. You think Jenna will be with a pussy? How stupid is Brad?
Meni writes on Netpond: Brad, are you kidding me? Leash? I work for Clubjenna. You fire [porn star] Alana [Evans] for showing up 10 minutes AFTER Celeste did. Well Tonda fired her. Was she upset cuz little Brad in your pants went rock hard for Alana on Monday? Dude, don't date your employees, BAD. Have your ex=girlfriend work for you, might not be the best strategy. Why do you have to post all this crap AFTER the show? Jay's buddy is Clay, Clay was doing security for Jenna. Clay is the guy 6'5" 240 lbs, lean, dark hair, goatee. If anyone at the show saw him, you will remember him. Vivid booth behind Jenna. You might be thinking of Joe, from NY, who is Jay's friend who was walking around too. Jay doesn't have a bodyguard. This Brad vs Jay thing is a joke. Jay talked you, and if you want to settle it another way. Good luck. Have fun.
Meni replies: Brad you said Tonda fired them. Celeste did not get fired and she was late too. Alana was the only girl who guys recognized. Telling her to the out of her room real nice. Next time don't use a Matrix girl for Fresh Photos booth. do the math
Brad Shaw writes on Netpond: Meni, the models were fired because they were over an hour late and showed up looking like crap, obviously cracked out on something. I do not care to have people like that representing my company.
Meni, if there is one thing I hate, it is boyfriends hanging around while a girl is trying to work. It can be a distraction when a girl is trying to give a dance in my booth, or suck a guy off on a shoot. Her BF stood in front of the booth all day, talking with her half the time. I tried to explain to him I had 2 people hired for security, but he would not let her out of his sights. Typical suit case pimp bf, that is why we do not allow BF's on the sets of our shoots.
Meni, the truth is what really pissed off Jay was my accurate pointing out of he may know the video business very well, but as far as the Internet business, he might as well by the Internet Lunch Box off the infomercial. Anyone recall Jenna's first site that took half an hour to load, was all flash and was reported to convert at a whopping 1:2500 on type in traffic? Good thing they hired MikeW.
And talking about handling things, going after my employees is super pussy work. If you have a problem with me, talk to me. I am very easy to find, I hide from nobody. Then when I confront you about it at the vivid booth, you deny it.
Meni writes: going after you employees? I was on E i wasn't mad at anyone Greg asked me what the Jay vs Brad thing was. Jay talked to Greg Greg waves to me the rest of the show. Serge, you were not there. Jay sat with Brad and talked for 10 minuts. Lectured him Jay walked away, Brad said something. Jay went up to Brad, Joe pulled Jay back. Later, someone at Brad's booth calls Jay a wimp. Again, Jay is not there. boy that real intellect. I do not tell Jay, because I don't want to see anything happen to Brad or his friends. Serge its simple, Brad insults, Jay about many things. Brad doesn't know Jay. Why is Brad talking about Jay? Cuz he thinks he'll be more webmasters signed up for SIC CASh with all his posts. Genius isn't it
Brad, do you want to have jay hit you, then you can sue him? as for his career. Over 700 movies shot, and his own company. And his phone biz. Why do you ask? Does he ask about how you make money?
Brad writes: Meni, Jay comes after me, I hit him in the wallet! He should learn how to handle things in a cival manner, rather than threatening to kill someone. If he wants to kill me, bring it on, what can I do about it.
Jeff Miller from SunupMedia writes: I understand, it is nothing personal between Brad and Jay, it is just business and of course I can respect that. I have seen it so many times before. Like the time when Pert plus shampoo came out and they started advertising that they were better than Head and Sholders shampoo. Oh man, you should have seen the CEO of Johnson and Johnson just wail on the Pert guy. I bet now he wishes he had a friend like Jay has to hold him back. Or better yet that time that Charmin came out with their new line and they showed that their rolls had 27% more paper than those cockholsters over at Northern. Its a damn good thing that the Charmin people travel with some extra rolls, they sure needed them to clean up the blood after the Northern guy showed up at their booth.
You see Meni, I don't need to hear anyones side of the story. Your friend Jay had no business showing up at Brad's booth, which Brad paid for, to start s---. It was not the time, nor the place. And the fact that Jay's friend had to hold him back from hitting Brad really adds credence to the fact that Brad is a very successful business person and Jay just appears to be a thug who got lucky and married a hot chick.
7/3/01
Brad Shaw Seeks Jenna Jameson Content
Webmaster Brad Shaw writes: Luke, I am looking to buy rights to photo and video content of Jenna Jameson. If anyone has this sort of content, and owns the rights to sell please contact me at brad@shawinternet.com . I will pay top dollar, cash.
Brad Shaw writes on Netpond: "Jenna, nothing against you, simply the people who are running your web operations and your bf who threatened to have me killed. I can not imagine threatening to make people "disappear" is good for business. This is not the Sopranos. You have the ability to make millions on the web, I hope it happens, but from my dealings with who you have running your stuff, it is far from a sure thing."
Jenna Jameson writes on Netpond: "Brad, Lets get something straight... You opened a can of worms by posting comments about my operation and the people that work with me (Meni and Jay). Now, I don't know what you were trying to prove, but, myself and co-workers took your attitude as an insult, which it was. The things you said were definately uncalled for, just because we decided not to do business with you. Do you say these things about everyone that doesn't do what you tell them to do? I understand that you have nothing against me (only that you think I'm a has-been). Which I will pay no attention to, because everyone knows that is totally untrue. I just don't appreciate all this pumped up talk about my fiance'. You know good and well, he never backed down from you, nor would he ever. I thought since you claim to be so business-minded, you never would have played into this so-called scene that was made at your booth. Why don't you just relax, and let it go. It would be in both of our best interests. Also, in the future, I would appreciate it if you tried being more respectful to me, my fiance and everyone that works for me. You attract more bees with honey than vinegar!"
Brad Shaw writes on Netpond: Jenna, I never said he backed down. I believe he wanted to beat the s--- out of me, but his "bogyguard" pulled him away. Me, I could car a less if he took a swing at me, all in a days work, life goes on. Sure he could take a swing at me, but that would not be smart, and I do not think Jay is that stupid.
I think YOU need to have a talk with him and let him know that coming over and threatening me will not work, just puts more fire under me. I do not appeciate his threat to kill me, therefore I will do what I can to be a thorn in his side until I recieve a public apology from Jay for lecturing me, then threatening to make me "disappear". Business is business, but death threats are not fun and games.
Jenna Jameson writes on Netpond: I see that your only cocern is the incident at internext. Have you said anything about the comments that you made? Why do you feel this personal vendeta? Makes me wonder. Why are you saying you are buying all Jenna material??? You have to understand, when you try to "put a thorn in Jay's side" YOU ARE PUTTING ONE IN MINE!!!!
I don't think you want to have a problem with me. I don't have time for all this kindergarden crap. Trust me, Jay wasn't threatening to kill you, he just was trying to convey to you, that you need to keep a lower profile when it comes to clubjenna.com and jennacash.com. They are of NO concern to you. PERIOD.
Brad, just a heads-up,That wasn't Jay's bodyguard... He [FearZeus@aol.com) is one of his best friends from NY. Please, don't get him involved.... Not a good idea! :)
Serge Birbrair writes: No s---, he probably is a friend of Tony Soprano, no less, scary stuff you posting, Jenna.
Jenna Jameson writes on Netpond: "Brad, Just saw your post on L-ke Ford. You want to fall into the category of one of the webmasters that rip girls off. I want you to understand something, I have worked for eight years to build my name up to where it is. I have just begun to get my feet wet when it comes to the internet. There are a lot of pirates out there using my name and likeness to make money off of something I worked so hard for. Why would you want to join them. Just to let you know, if you decide to go on with your dirty little deeds, my name is trade marked. I do not stand for anyone , I MEAN ANYONE, ripping me off. Do me a favor, rethink what you are doing. Trust me, you want me as a friend."
Brad Shaw writes on Ynottoppond.com: " Lets not forget how this all started and why Brad is so bitter. Jenna and her company wasted my time, and negotiated in bad faith on a business deal. Basically I feel they were picking my brain and had no intention of doing any business, too bad I found this out over a month after my company spent countless hours on developing a project. BTW, we are not the only company they did this to. Call it sour grapes, call it whatever ,I do not like to have my chain yanked and my time wasted."
Serge writes: "Dear God, please bless us with a NEW super porn star! little bit less tits and little bit more brains will be just fine!"
Brad writes: "Jenna, I am just collecting images and video. Who knows what I am going to do with them. Wicked sure looks like they have some good ideas though. As for illegal, of course I always consult my lawyers. I am not as dumb as I look."
Jenna Jameson responds: "Please don't twist my words, I am not threatening anyone! I weigh 107 pounds, for gods sake! I don't want Jay's friend [FearZeus@aol.com, boyhood friend of Rob Spallone from the same Queens crew] involved only because he is a family man, his wife is expecting in two weeks. As far as tag lines go, I am not here trying to promote, just clear things up. I think we all need a group hug."
Meni wrtes: "First off we did not negotiate WITH YOU. Your Boy RON, who's GONE talked to Jay a couple of times. You wasted Jay's time I guess too. What did he learn from you? Nothing. Countless hours? hee hee, what a joke. You wanted Jenna video to STREAM You didn't get it Your are PISSED simple We spoke to someone, WAY bigger than you. And guess what, he loves us and We aren't doing anything with him. So who's the Bitch? you are Brad."
Brad Shaw writes: "I am not afraid of you kickin my ass, but after what Meni told me Jay did to some guy, something about almost killing him, I am scared of him. Guess Meni was trying to shut me up. Only thing that shuts me up is food, send me lobsters, daily. Switch to $30 with trial memberships I would even send traficc, and you could easily get 500+ sign-ups a day. But they may be the problem, lack of capital for a few months til recurrings kick in."
Brad Shaw writes: "Meni, what was the point of telling me that the last guy who open his mouth to Jay had to be helicoptered to the hospital? Seems that you are trying to intimidate me. Of course did not work well. Jenna, put a muzzle on your people, they directly reflect on you!"
"Meni was just speaking the truth... Nothing wrong with that. Listen, I don't muzzle people, that's why they like working with me. Maybe you should muzzle yourself and drop 30 or 40 pounds. j/k hehehehehehehe."
Brad Shaw writes: "Me being fat only reflects poorly on me, Meni being a big mouth wise guy, relfects poorly on you. It does. As soon as Jay apologizes, I will let it slide."
Jenna Jameson responds: "I understand where you are coming from Serge, sometimes people lose their tempers, which parties on BOTH sides did. I'm sure Brad is a great business man. He just needs to stop blowing things out of proportion. I am a great business woman also, i wouldn't be where I am if I weren't. But, I am six months into my first internet venture. I am sure Brad wasn't making multi-millions when he first started. Just give me time. World domination will be mine."