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Muscles

Most men prefer women who appear feminine, soft and curved as opposed to hard and straight.

Max Volume fails to understand why a "good number of the girls in porn, who are between the ages of 18 and 25 have so much flab. It's not as if these girls are brilliant marketers and are sitting in their offices orchestrating their next career move (believe me, I have attempted to

work with a number of these porn stars on gaining exposure in Asia and they either flake out on me, are unreliable, or just don't have the drive and commitment necessary). They don't seem to have a regular 9-5 job in addition to their porn work, so you would think that they would invest in their most valuable asset, which is their body. As I see it, there are barely a handful of girls who you can physically verify that they work out (with varying degrees of 'success').

"1. Tyffany Million - although, she is no longer in the biz. but, she had fantastic muscular development and look very good.

"2. Missy - I do believe Missy a little when she states that she works out regularly, but I doubt she is really pushing and substantial weight in the gym, cause she still has lots of loose or flabby skin, especially in the triceps, and she on occasion, given the right sex position, can be easily seen with substantial thigh and butt-cheek cellulite.

"3. Asia - it is evident that Asia does a fair amount of working out, and so far, I have yet to see any cellulite or extra flab anywhere on Asia's gorgeous body. Yet, like Missy, she is only toning herself and rarely shows any real muscle development.

"4. Lovette - I believe Lovette's claims that she works out, but she also seems to eat too much, cause although you can easily see her muscular development, it is covered by quite a bit of extra fat/skin.

"5. Kimi G - she's a hot Asian babe, almost too skinny .. but look at her washboard abs and bicep development ...

"Why, out of at least 200+ girls in the business now, do only 10 or so seem to be working out on a regular basis?

"I do love women like Christy Canyon (who obviously does little working out), but she has the overall look that goes with a body like that ... whereas, if Asia let herself get plump like that, she would look doggish." (RAME.net)

Faceman911: "I think Max Volume raises a good point. Why don't these girls take better care of themselves? If their body is their meal ticket, you'd think that they'd be very concerned with their appearance, like fashion models are.

There are a few possible explanations: *They think they look fine. * They are lazy/ *They are not smart enough to realize that their job security depends mostly on their looks. * No one in the industry puts pressure on them to stay in shape. (Alicia Silverstone was put on a strict training regimen so she would look good in her Batgirl outfit. Is there a porn equivalent to this?) * They don't take much pride in their work and this lack of pride carries over to aspects of their appearance.

"I don't know which is right. My problem with some of the girls in porn is not so much that they aren't toned (I prefer girls to be somewhat "soft", and I'm sure my ideal woman differs from Max's, i.e. she isn't Kianna from ESPN's Flex Appeal) but that facially, they aren't too attractive. There *are* girls who almost seem "too pretty" to be in porn. Unfortunately, many of these girls work for Vivid, so they're actually only *kind of* in porn. Seriously, whenever I see a not-just-by-porn-standards-beautiful girl in smut, I wonder why she's letting some mutant stud defile her for the world to see. Sometimes I think we get too greedy, losing sight of the fact that these girls are f---ing on film, and we get to watch. Then I remember that we pay money to watch this stuff, so we have a right to demand some semblance of quality from pornmakers, who rival only carny hucksters in their propensity to rip people off." (RAME.net)

Andy says: "How could you forget blondie bee and leena? Total hardbodies. Blondie was one of the most notable, since her time was in the 80s and hardbodies were very rare back then. seeing her with tony montana made it all the more revolting."

Darklady finds this discussion of porn stars' bodies disagreeable. "Ever had sex with a non-porn chick? They don't all work out every day... I've had sex with men who looked 100 times better than some of the guys getting paid to f--- on film. Every lady of smut I met spends more time in the gym than the average person but they may also be getting more booze than the average lady as well… Tyffany Million (who I've worked with) is one of the few people whose body you're pleased with and, while she's always been very sweet with me, she seems to have a real "must work out constantly" obsession which, frankly, concerns me.

"Not every many wants to look at a woman with 3% body fat (thank god for my sake). I personally prefer women with some flesh... it's how it's put together that matters to me more than how much there is. I've got less cellulite, for instance, than many thin women I know. I'd rather watch a little extra skin move during the slapping than watch those Marine bootcamp topsheet tight fake tits stand at attention during what should be an intense sex scene." (RAME.net)

The Director opines on RAME: "There are "pretty" girls and there are "porn" girls and sometimes there is some overlap, but not usually.

"We're caught in a vicious circle of self-hatred -- we sorta know porn is wrong, which is why we like it and wish people didn't have to do it (be "defiled" as you say) yet we're happy that they do. It's a classic NIMBY situation; sure you can do porn, but if my daughter decides to pursue it as a career, I'd probably die."

Holly Ryder saw more disturbing traits in porn stars than flab. "Visible signs of heavy drug use or drinking. I have nothing against the use of drugs or alcohol, each to their own, but in an industry so centered around flesh and the

body, one should try to keep the effects of these substances on the body hidden. I'm sorry, but while bedroom eyes are sexy, sunken eyes are not."

Peter Gustaffson received this mental image while reading this RAME thread:

Porn set: typical cheesy porn room, equipped with 10 stairmasters and an assortment of other exercise equipment.

Actors: Max Volume (Non-sex role), Ron Jeremy, Peter North, Gerard Damiano (non-sex cameo), TT Boy, two Duch guys (non-sex cameo) Actresses: Janine L., several chubby actresses, Brandy A. (non-sex cameo)

Scene 1: MV enters set alone, dressed in all-black clothes and wearing a stern look on his face.

MV: "Dear viewers, the state of porn, and its actresses, are in a sad shape. In this video, that problem will be corrected. First, we will hear what a usually opinionated man has to say about the topic. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Gerald Damiano!"

(GD enters from the side, blathering uncontrollably)

MV: "NO! I am doing the talking around here! Actually, Gerald, we have chosen you to come to this video since you will train the jaw muscles of one specific female performer."

GD: (leering smile) "What, is she going to use her mouth on me?"

MV: "After a fashion. Viewers, please welcome Brandy Alexandre!"

BA: "Ah! My time of revenge has come!" (BA verbally abuses GD, I won´t write in her lines, I am sure that she can handle that herself.)

A few minutes later...

MV: "Brandy, I think that GD has gotten punished enough now. Let´s take him away. TT, come here!"

(TT Boy comes running, wearing his usual intellectual look)

TT: "ah hah hah scream!"

MV: "TT, you see that guy over there? No, NOT Brandy, she is not a guy!(TT turns and look at GD) Get rid of him!"

TT lifts up GD, makes some chimpanzee sounds, and carries him away and throws out of the house where the filming is taking place. A pair of men speaking with heavy Dutch accents happen to be passing by. They immediately

recognize TT, but they don´t recognize the gut lying on the ground.

Dutch guy #1: "Who is that?"

Dutch guy #2: "Finally, I must admit that there is someone in the business that I can´t recognize immediately. We must look it up in my database!"

Scene 2: Back to the porn set..

MV: "After this intermezzo, lets let several gals train at the same time, and not just one. I have a selection of girls that are in dire need of some toning up."

A bunch of starlets enter, bubbling with the stereotypical So.Cal stock porn lines.

Starlets in Chorus: "Hi Max!! Are we going to do "Where the boy´s aren´t #25" now? Let´s start!"

(They start undressing their torn jeans)

MV: "NO! *POSITIVELY* no g/g stuff here! You are going to get on those stairmasters, right away!"

Starlets: "Aw, We don´t want to, pleaaase?"

MV: "It is either that or Ron!"

Ron Jeremy enters from the side, all starlets except one hop onto the stairmasters fast.

MV: "Thats it! Work! Faster! Harder! Train until you get legs that look those on a Japanese gal!"

MV turns to the last starlet- "So you prefer Ron? Why?"

Starlet: "I am all-American gal, we are supposed to take a car everwhere and eat nothing but trash food! I *hate* gym!"

MV: "Well, get on with it, then."

Starlet lies down and starts some fake moaning before Ron even touches her. Ron takes off his clothes and lifts up his stomach by tying the stomach fur to the chest fur. Ron starts boinking.

RJ: I am hungry!

MV: The caterers are going come anytime now. Now concentrate on what you are paid for!

RJ: Hey, you microphone guy! Lean forward!

(The guy holding the microphone boom gets so surprised so that he loses control of the boom. It goes down and becomes visible in the picture. The viewers see a bag fastened to the microphone with a familiar logo on it.)

RJ: Ah, just what I wanted! Here comes my super-duper McCheese meal with extra French Fries and a double Coke!

Ron continues boinking while he wolfs down the fastfood meal. The starlet doesn´t seem to mind.

MV: Wait a minute, Ron! How can you do something nasty if you *eat* at the same time?

RJ: (Self-assured ton of voice) Easy, watch me.

MV: (Snide, disbelieving tone of voice) Show me.

RJ: Sure, I can do a DP with Ed Powers right now.

MV: He isn´t even here!

Ron is silent, and puts in a French Fry beside his own tool. Soon thereafter Ron finishes and lies down on the starlet, breathing like a beached whale with pneumonia. Max turn to the other starlets, who seem to be slowing down.

MV: Continue! Get away those cellulites!

Starlets: Huff-huff-huff! We are tiired! Can we stop now?

MV: No!

MV turns to the camera-

MV: Now I will introduce a pornstar who would be perfect if she just did men, and a stud who will teach her to do it.

Janine Lindemulder and Peter North enter from the sides-

MV: Janine you are well-toned, but don´t do men. Now Mr.Hairdo here will show you how to appreciate men.

JL: No, I *won´t* touch him.

MV: You won´t need to. (devilish smile) Just take off you clothes and let him offer his extra-special skin cream.

JL: Oh, in that case, no problem.

(Janine disrobes)

MV: Peter, start whacking!

PN starts amusing himself by abusing himself.

JN: Are you coming soon?

PN: (Laughing) Aaaah I´m coming!

Janine, anticipating what will happen, calmly sits still. Peter N tries to aim, but misses everything from 6 inches range. PN slumps over backwards, and the starlets hop off their stairmasters and start a daisy chain. Max goes

apeshit. Brandy enters the set.

MV: Dammit, what is this? Why is everything going wrong?

BA: This is a xxx-movie with a moral, actually.

MV: (asks in disbelief) And what would that moral be, if I may ask?

BA: That everything that can go wrong will go wrong at the most inconvenient time. Its called Murphy´s law. Take it as a lesson in humility.

MV: What is that?

Film stops, and the credits start rolling, all disorganized. Suddenly the credits stop and the two Dutch guys come into the picture.

Dutch guy#1: "Let's fix this! With our combined knowledge, we should be able to do it!"

Dutch guy#2: "Sure, what are we waiting for?"

Dutch guy#1 gets out a computer, some assorted cable, misc. tools, and some diskettes. He hooks up the computer to the videocamera through the cables, reprograms the software in the camera, and gets it to rewind while he edits the credits text onscreen. Dutch guy#2 identifies the starlets by looking at their bellybuttons, while at the same time conversing with Janine in the language of her ancestors. Together, they get the credits right in no time.

Dutch guy#2: "Frans, you are a wonder! Is there a computer geek to rival you?"

Dutch guy#1: "Well, without your knowledge of pornstars, Peter, it would have been for nothing. Together we can do everything!"

Frans Postma, Peter Van Aarle and Janine start singing the Dutch National Anthem. After a few bars they recognize that they need another woman´s voice to get the four-part chorus right. The hand a sheet of musical notes to Brandy, who chimes in. In the background, Peter North demonstrates to the starlets how he keeps his hair in such good shape by combing Ron´s back. The film ends for real.

Heterosexual porn offers few body builders aside from Dave Nelson, Alex Sanders and Colt Steele. Body builders abound in gay porn.

Tim Evanson: "I think the gay consumer fantasizes about the top as well as the bottom. The straight man's focus is on one person, the woman. The man IS only a surrogate, and if he's too muscular, too handsome, too (whatever) he is competition and not a surrogate. But a gay man can fantasize about both the top and the bottom. For argument's sake, let's assume I'm a big ol' top. I can fantasize about the bottom because I'm a top, and yet I can fantasize about the top because I can pretend I'm him. Sometimes the top is a big ol' muscleman and maybe I can't "pretend I'm him" because I'm not a big muscleman. In that case, I block out the top and just pretend I am f---ing that bottom man I lust for. On the other hand, maybe I'm not a muscleman BUT I WANT TO BE ONE so I can attract men like the bottom I'm admiring; so I end up fantasizing about being the top after all even though I can't mirror-image myself in his place.

"Now, I doubt a straight man is going to fantasize about being the "bottom" in het films (i.e., the woman being f---ed). He can fantasize about f---ing her (i.e., ignore the man in the scene and pretend he's with her). But he CANNOT mirror-image with the man in the scene; that

would mean he has to want to BE that man and that means idolizing another man rather than seeing him as competition. It means admitting the other man has beauty. THAT is hard for straight men to do on an emotional level.

"Now, I'm not saying the above works for ALL gay men. Some gay men have low self-esteem and cannot put themselves into another man's place, or even admire the scene itself and only want to be a voyeur. Some men have HIGH self-esteem and don't want to mirror-image (they're fine with

their own image) and don't want to partake because they're happy being a voyeur. Some men have high self-esteem and feel they ARE just like that muscled top or well-hung guy or handsome man, and so DO want to put themselves into the scene...

"I don't buy that most men fixate on dick size. My experience is far different. I tend to find that most men are into something other than dick size: Age, muscularity, handsomeness, personality traits, lifestyle (into leather, a daddy, a club kid, etc.). Dick size may indeed be a sensitive issue to many, but I doubt it's the overriding

issue."

Essex9999: "What if the gay actor doing the servicing is also a bodybuilder? Why would a straight man be intimated by a very muscular "surrogate" if a gay man is not intimated by the same situation?

"It seems unlikely -- based on what I read on RAME, on the men I know personally, and on human nature -- that heavily muscled men are deliberately kept out of straight porn because they would intimidate or discomfort straight male viewers. I think the reason is less baroque: There is simply not enough interest to warrant casting such types, and not enough reward to the actors to motivate them to bulk up.

"I'm sure viewers often quite consciously place themselves INTO the scene, deliberately substituting themselves for one of the performers, in fantasy. I do, too, sometimes. But I also sometimes get off on just watching the performers go at it, without consciously fantasizing about being in the scene.

"It's certainly true that gay men can -- theoretically, depending on their individual tastes -- fantasize

about both the top and bottom in a gay porn scene. Straight men will fantasize only about the woman in a straight porn scene. That's why there is comparatively little interest in/attention to the male performers in het porn.

"I just don't quite buy the "competition" angle as a reason for why there are so few bodybuilders in straight porn. It may be a small factor for some producers, but it seems to me that there are more immediate, practical reasons -- already discussed -- that are more likely causes.

"Anyway, there are *some* very attractive straight male performers. Rocco Siffredi is gorgeous and could certainly have a career in gay porn if he were so inclined. Mark Davis is a very good-looking, well-built fellow. TT Boy is not especially handsome, but he has a great body and a dick of steel. If fear of competition were really such a big factor, how could these guys succeed?"

"The typical gay porn consumer is most likely not as well-built as the typical gay-porn performer," writes Essex9999 on RAME. "Why wouldn't that "shatter the illusion" for gay viewers? Furthermore, I think most men -- at least those who watch porn -- have a fairly clear idea of how their dicks measure up, and dick size is a MUCH more sensitive subject than body build ... so you would think that the big dicks of most porn performers would be as threatening as a big, muscular body. But that doesn't seem to have hindered Rocco's career (thank God!).

"I'm not so sure that all porn viewers, gay or straight, have "surrogates," i.e. that they insert themselves -- so to speak -- into the movie. There must be others besides me who primarily watch porn as though from the outside, that is, voyeuristically, rather than as a fantasy-participant. Then again, maybe I'm weird ... or, rather, even weirder than I already knew I was."

Averybrady: "The gay "consumer" is not shattering his illusions when he sees beef on the screen. Rather, he is turned on. He is the surrogate of whoever is servicing the stud, be it top or bottom. The hetero, however, is not supposed to be turned on by a showy display of muscle. His turn-on and the focus of his attention in a str8 porn flick is the babe. A bodybuilder in a video would bring unwanted attention to the man. As a voyeur, the hetero dude doesn't want to be hyperaware of discrepancies in build. Now as for the dick size, Joe 6-pack sees the schlong on the screen as his own. In close-ups, it's a disembodied dick, which makes it easier to "own." When Joe gets a hard-on, it's a lot easier for him to pretend he's hung like a stallion then it is for him to believe he's buffed like Steve Regis.

"Voyeurism always has a fantasy-participant subtext. How else would you be affected by what you're watching?"

Stryker: "I think the reason there are more body builders in gay porn should be obvious: there are more gay bodybuilders. I'm not talking about professional body builders, but body conscious men who build their

bodies up. Go into a straight bar in anytown America and look at the men. Do the same in the gay bar and compare them to the men in the straight bar. While the gay bar might only have a few examples of the bodybuilder type, it almost certain (from my experience) to contain more examples of this type than the straight bar. Gay

men idolize muscles more than straight men."

DCOLDMAN: "Please, my gay brothers, for the last time, don't come up with some nonsensical theory whose only basis is suspicion. We het porn viewers have no direct input into the way the men look in videos; we care much more about how the women look, and that's what makes or breaks the videos. Men sometimes aren't even listed on the box, or even in the movie, and there's few or no outcries. Turn it around; IF THERE'S A PROBLEM, MAYBE THE GAY VIEWERS HAVE THE PROBLEM. Maybe the gay viewer REQUIRES big, muscular men. Maybe hetero men aren't "threatened," maybe we just don't give a shit either way, and the producers know this, so they look for a guy who can get an erection and come on command first and foremost, and we don't have a situation where half the men don't have to have erections because they're being bottoms.

"Straight men are insecure about a great number of things, but maybe here it's the gay men who are insecure, and NEED the illusion of being the big, muscular man OR being f---ed by a big muscular man (after all, it means

being found desirable by someone who is considered desirable). Maybe straight men are confident enough to only want to see the intensity a woman feels when a big dick slides in and out of her (rightly or wrongly, we

think a woman may show more reactions then than with a small dick); maybe gay men are the ones who NEED the added illusion of either being big and muscular or being f---ed by someone big and muscular.

"The "receivers" of sex and desire in hetero porn are women, but they are not anywhere near a majority of the viewers (i.e., renters and buyers), and they have ALMOST NO economic say-so in the particulars of the video; almost

all producers can make a very good living COMPLETELY ignoring most of this demographic's wishes and do so for years. But the "receivers" of sex and desire in gay porn are the entire audience, who may fantasize about being

both a top and/or a bottom in any particular situation, so the producers can't ignore what well may be the wishes of their entire audience, especially when there are other producers out there willing to do so in a heartbeat. We in het porn can have Dave Nelsons and Francois Papillons (sp?) and Rocco Siffredis and Marc Wallices and Ed Powers, JUST

SO LONG as they f--- women we would like to f---. Maybe more producers should care what women want to see, but more don't. The gay market is not split in the same manner.

"I can't pretend that all gay men are even similar, but there are some truths that are almost a certainty about being gay that I as a straight man would just have to accept as fact, because I don't have any way to know

otherwise. I feel that this is one of those truths about being straight that gay men will just have to accept. It may feed a justly-acquired sense of suspicion to believe that straight men feel threatened in this situation, but I'll tell you what I would have told the Heaven's Gate

members if they'd asked me: Something's not true just because it reinforces your beliefs to believe it's true. A theory based on a fact is a theory; a theory based on your paranoia is a sign it's time to check into that part

of your head now that the war's over."

Savvy: "Ever notice (esp. in Hustler Erotic Vid Guide) that whenever a good looking, well-built guy enters the straight biz, it is implied that he's gay...In the latest HEVG, in addition to using the old "Matt Ramsey" ploy on Peter North, one other well built guy is called a Santa Monica refugee. Rocco Siffredi has been called (again by HEVG) an "aging bi hustler". Vince Vouyer and Alex Sanders have been "accused" of doing gay films on the sly. The only crime that they can be accused of is trying to keep in shape for the fans (or for themselves).

"Yet, repugnant guys like Al Borda, Ed Powers, and Max Hardcore go on their merry way, still popular with the male porn fans. Only God knows why."

Tim Evanson: "1) Straight men don't care about the guys in het porn, so the men end up looking like Ron Jeremy (frightened mothers just pulled their children in off the stoop).

"2) Gay men have a strong "looks-ist" culture (although "looks-ist" may be too strong a word, perhaps) that idolizes bodybuilders. Indeed, the whole of bodybuilding culture is very homoerotic even though most straight guys in that "sport" will vehemently deny that it's so to

protect themselves from accusations they're bi or gay (Eve Sedgwick, call your office).

"Several black bodybuilders who do gay porn for All Worlds Video just moved into bi porn. Bobby Blake is the first name to come to mind; AVN has a big, expensive ad taken out by Totally Tasteless Video/Terribly Tight Video promoting their "Goldie Locks and the Three Bi Bears" in which he appears. (Black gay porn studs Gene LaMar and Richard Reyes also appear in the film.)

"Take a poll of your straight friends: How many would f--- a girl on camera for money (so long as they wouldn't be "found out" by family, etc.)? Most or all of them, I bet.

"Now, take a poll of your straight friends: How many would f--- a MAN on camera (again, assuming shyness, family finding out, etc. are all taken care of)? Even add the ADDITIONAL assumption of "you are starving and about to be kicked out of your house, and have absolutely no other

sources of income." I bet the answer is close to NONE.

"Sexual identity, I think, just isn't that flexible. VERY few people can "cross over" for just $1,000 a f---.

"Now, assuming that Scott Randsome is "straight" just because he says so and he's married and has a little girl doesn't say much. "Straight" as a label doesn't equate with who a guy wants to f---, even though it MOST of the time it does. Any quick review of the literature on sexual identity will show that sexual IDENTITY is different from ORIENTATION. A guy like Randsome is (from what we know, which may or may not be true) IDENTIFIED as straight, yet he's ORIENTED toward men and women equally (it seems) because he's willing to suck a man's cock and f--- men and kiss men--and yet he also has sex with women.

"But that same literature is clear in pointing out that sexual identity and orientation are NOT very flexible, nor do they change much after one's teens. It's not the pay. It's the guy, a guy who likes f---ing with men. A guy like Randsome or Chandler was pre-disposed to having sex with men anyway, even though he is self-identified as straight."

Essex9999: "Having big, pumped-up, bodybuilder muscles is hard work, for which there would be little or no reward in

straight porn. If a guy can get and keep wood, come on cue, read his lines without sounding stilted, and is not too horrible looking, he will be getting second billing to the Vivid-Girl-of-the-moment in big-budget features in no time. (Come the think of it, the latter two are not absolute requirements, either.) Why bother to turn himself into a

Schwarzenegger clone, when that's as far as he can go anyway?

"Also, don't forget that many bodybuilders achieve those bulging muscles with the aid of anabolic steroids ... drugs which are absolutely forbidden for porn performers, gay or straight. At least, those who want to keep their careers."