Friday, July 28th, 2000

Rouze.com Layoffs

According to f---edcompany.com: Rumor has it Rouze.com -- which was acquired by playboy online in February -- recently fired the two founders of the company and have given notice to the remainder of the staff.

XXX: The original founders of Rouze parted ways with Playboy last week. Editor JR Taylor says that no one else has been given notice, and Playboy has officially denied that they're letting anyone else go.

Distributor Scandal

Taksan writes on acme: Luke F-rd seems to like tarring Private and most major European distributors with the "Laundering Drug Ring Money" tag. Everyone in Budapest it seems is controled by the Ukrainian Mafia according to the rumours that seem to be accepted as fact by many of the misinformed media around.

Quite simply most distributors I know wouldn't give a f--- if they thought the product would sell. I know I wouldn't ..the only tape I've ever knocked back for moral reasons was because I objected to the content of the tape more then the people that offered it to me. And as people will tell you I'll sell almost anything...so I'd say most distributors would simply look at the deal and the potential of the product.

Michelle Raven vs Tony Eveready

Michelle Raven writes Wednesday: I saw the piece on Tony and I this evening. That was just part of a note to a personal friend. It is all true, but that isn't anybodies business - but Tony and I. I'd appreciate it if people would mind their own business and stay out of others. For the record, it is true, charges are being brought against Tony. No, they don't know where he is because he is hiding. But trust me, they are looking. That is more than anybody needs to know. Please keep my name out of you site.

Michelle writes Friday evening: If "Mr. Eveready" says he isn't hiding, Detective Cordobas of the West Valley Police would like him to give him a call. Since he changes hotels every week it has been very hard for them to find him. His number is 818.756.8553. He looks forward to the punks call.

Guttermouths 17 - The New DP Position

Patrick Riley writes on RAME: Just when you think you've seen everything, trust the porn industry to come up with something new, in this case a position, a DP variant.

The most common DP position, the one we think about when we hear the word/letters is with one guy on his back, the girl face down on him with him lodged in her pussy and the second guy doing the girl doggie, lodged in her asshole.

The second more modern variant, about five years old I would guess--anyone remember it earlier than say 1996--is where the girl's position is reversed. The guy, usually seated rather than lying down, takes the anal route with the girl in reverse cowgirl, and his buddy takes her vagina with her facing him. Any suggestion as to a snappy name for this? "Reverse DP doesn't cut it due to the obvious confusion.

Anyway the new style as shown in the subject movie has the girl in piledriver position, something popularized by Max, and the two guys face each other, one taking the pussy and the other the asshole. In the scene in the movie they were careful not to swing the camera up but obviously with the two guys facing each other there would be every opportunity to have some close and intimate facial contact. An obvious advantage to this position is that the cameraman can avoid almost totally including the girl's upper body and face in the shot, just two holes in a butt are visible.

The next variant, surely for a bisex or tranny movie, is for one of the guys to reverse direction and the two of them to ride the girl like they were both riding the same horse. Then instead of A2P we could have A2A where one A was the other guy and one the girl. See! There are some perversions as yet un-shown!

BTW if anyone is interested the girl is Mirage and the two guys are Backey Jackie and Dave Hardman. The movie cannot be recommended (unless you want to marvel at the porn industry's inventiveness) due to the high skank factor and the prevalence of flabby bellies, the other females being Nikita Denise, Heather Lyn, and Barrett Moore.

Michael Raven Update

I talked Thursday with director Michael Raven who shoots all the feature films for Sin City.

Michael: "I'm in the middle of shooting Underworld. It's my big movie of the year. We're shooting on 16mm film. I'm taking a three day break. We'll go back into production on the 31st [of July] to finish up. We've already shot four days. On the first day, we shut down the Sixth Street bridge in downtown LA. We got permitted and paid for a street closure. The LAPD shut it down for us.

"It stars Zoe, Jessica Drake, Taylor St Claire and Terri Summers from Holland. Terri and I met over the internet. I came across her website. We started a correspondence. We brought her out here and she did her first scene ever a couple of months ago. She's coming out four time a year. She signed a deal with my production company Cinema West.

"We produce the Puritan Magazine video line, and we just did a deal with Vivid to make feature videos and films.

"Underworld is a modern day retelling of a Greek myth where Orpheus travels to visit Hades to recover his lost love. Metro loaned us Ron Jeremy to play Hermes.

Luke: I heard that Katja Kean had some personal issues and dropped out of the project.

Serge Birbrair Interview

I talked Thursday afternoon with former internet traffic broker Serge Birbrair, a 43-year old Russian Jewish immigrant to the United States.

Serge: I thought once about moving to Israel but it was too hot.

Luke: Please give me some insight into Ron Levi.

Serge: I don't have dirt on him. I wouldn't want to be his enemy and I wouldn't want to be his friend. I doubt he has any friends.

Luke: Why would you not want to be his friend?

Serge: I don't think he has any friends. I remember when his divorce came, he didn't have anybody to cry on their shoulder. He used to cry with people in the industry. Don't you have anyone with whom to discuss these issues? You should have your friends. He might have business colleagues but I don't think he has friends.

Luke: Why?

Serge: I don't know. I'm not sure if he knows how to give of himself. He knows how to give people money. But when you're friends with somebody, you have to give part of yourself. I don't think he knows how to give part of himself.

Luke: You're saying that he works so much that the human part of him did not develop?

Serge: That's what I think.

Luke: How influential do you think he's been in the industry?

Serge: On a scale of 0 to 10, probably about 8.5.

Luke: What have been his most influential innovations?

Serge: "You give him credit for inventing the click-thru program. He tries to portray that but it is not true. The first click-thru program was invented in 1996, about three weeks before Levi, by Al Hadhazy from Amateur Hardcore.

"The way I know this story is that I was working with Al and Ron at the same time. I remember which program came first. I remember that Ron was going to sue somebody for circumventing their efforts to create the program. I remember Ron asking the Amateur Hardcore people if they [Cybererotica] could develop the same program for them.

"Ron loves to take the credit for them but I communicated with Al Hadhazy who says, 'The reason I let him do that is... I was the one who invented it but he was the one who was able to bring it to life.' Even though Hadhazy invented the program, Al closed his. Ron did not and did better than the inventor of it."

Luke: "Why do you think Ron Levi has been so successful? Cybererotica would be one of the five biggest adult sites on the net and his webmaster program has probably paid out $100 million. Would you agree with those estimates?"

Serge: "Yeah. Why? Because he was early. He has an outstanding personality. He was innovative. He was in front of everybody in many ways and showed the rest of the industry where to go. Like productivity clicks, that was his invention. When everybody was paying flat rates, he introduced productivity with High Rollers. He was the one who introduced free signups."

Luke: "Do you blame him for the industry's credit card problems?"

Serge: "No. I do not think that anybody can be blamed for anything. This industry is a bunch of greedy people who are not connected to each other and have mostly their own interests at heart. They do not give a damn about the industry as a whole regardless of what they say in public. I saw Ron's comment that every time he does something, he thinks about the industry. That's bulls---. Everybody in this industry thinks about themselves. Then about their families, friends and coworkers."

Luke: "Does this industry have leaders?"

Serge: "Yes, the guys from New York. They have most of the money and the most traffic."

Luke: "Who are they? Crescent?"

Serge: "Crescent. Yishai. I forgot the name of the company he works for."

Luke: "What do you think of Andy Edmond and his Flying Crocodile operation, since it's taken over YNOT?"

Serge: "Andy who?"

Luke: "What is your assessment of the job Adult Video News has done since taking over IA2000?"

Serge: "I've never been once to their show. But I don't think it's been any different [since they've taken over the internet tradeshow IA2000]. I don't see them as an industry leader."

Luke: "Do you read their magazine?"

Serge: "No. I don't see them as doing much for anybody. Do we have anybody looking out for us? No."

Luke: What is your assessment of Rich Botto and his MaxCash?

Serge: I take my hat off. In the days when Ron and I were beating each other, those guys were not even in the top ten. Today they are number one by volume and market participation and traffic. And they did it without screwing anybody, which is very rare in our business.

Luke: Who else do you respect in the industry?

Serge: General from Australia. He put himself out of the picture 18 months ago but his site (Playgal.com) is number three in traffic.

Luke: Is he part of the Australian Mafia?

Serge: There is no Australian Mafia.

Luke: It is a euphemism for a clique.

Serge: They are more close together than the Americans. But I like Australians. I haven't yet met an Australian I would distrust. With an Australian, you always know where you are.

Luke: Do you know a Greg Lazardos and what is your assessment of him?

Serge: Hmmmmmmmm. Very sharp and knows what he is doing. I met him in New York.

Luke: What does the future hold for you?

Serge: Nothing. I am through with the adult industry. I am not pulling my money out of it but we are not pursuing anything. We just maintain... We're trying to deal in non-adult ventures on the ruins of the adult one.

Luke: How is it coming along?

Serge: Slowly but surely. We're incorporating everything we learned in adult and are bringing it into the non-adult world.

Luke: Are you enthusiastic about what you are doing or are you burned out?

Serge: I am only excited about my travel. Basically everything is done by my management. I just consult with them. I worked too much. For three years in a row, I worked 18 hours a day. I'm done. Professionally I am done.

Luke: When did you jump into the adult internet?

Serge: The end of 1995.

Luke: And were you the largest traffic broker on the adult web?

Serge: At my peak, yes. Even though there are people today who are bigger than me.

Luke: What's the future of the adult internet?

Serge: It's like the Klondike [gold rush in Alaska]. The biggest money has been made already. By the way, I went to Klondike this year. One hundred thousand people went to Klondike. Only 30,000 reached it. Only 35 people made claims. Only ten were able to get the gold and bring it back. And only one person who really made a lot of money. Guggenheim. That's where our beloved industry is going.

Ron Levi and RB and Yishai are going to be making millions while everyone else will make thousands [of dollars]. There's going to be a big gap between the leaders and everybody else.

Sex will always sell. But the biggest money has already been made. Now it is a struggle.

XXX: Ron Levi's moving into mainstream. Since the drop of the Nasdaq, many IPOs are running out of money. Ron's going in to make some deals with these IPOs, turn their business models around, and create profitable ones in exchange for a percentage of a profits. But many of these mainstreamers have big heads and don't want to deal with Levi. They try to take his free advice but not cut him in. But they're missing everywhere and won't have a profitable model.

Levi shares his ideas freely, then people take them and don't cut him in. He's been screwed over many times.

Marc: i've been inspecting your site with moschiach-like tactics to make sure it's PJG safe but the cybererotica plug is just too much. don't wait for chaim to badger you to get rid of the thing.

Filthy Cash

XXX tells Luke: You could get into major trouble for publishing this. You could get shot. You don't realize who you're messing with. This is the Australian Mafia. You do things too quick sometimes. I don't know who's sending you this stuff... Honestly, these Australian guys are bad news. They don't play games.

These Aussies are making $3 million a month. That's worth hurting somebody over. You're not hard to identify. It'd be a better idea to leave this alone. These guys worry me. They're ruthless. Scott Phillips from PinkBits is over in the US all the time. All these guys made their money at the same time.

Luke: Steve Easton from APIC (a group that monitors copyright violation on the internet) wrote leading porn webmasters Thursday:

I recieved this anonymous email this morning. I have no idea who this is from or if it is fact. It certainly is convincing, and falls right into the pattern I always suspect it will.

Letter: This letter concerns the rumored copyright infringements of this new Australian paysite company operating a webmaster program named Filthy Cash. I was immediately suspect of this company the moment they reared their head. Soon I learned that the main people in this company were previously owners of a company called WTFRC, short for Who The f--- Really Cares. The biggest email spammers ever to hit the Adult Net.

I'm sure you are aware of the largest case of search engine spamming/hijacking investigated by the FTC, well the guilty party was identified as Carlos Perreira of Argentina I believe. It just happened to turn out that all those 100's of thousands of search engine listed pages Perreira stole all went to WFRC's sites, some of them beastiality sites. Well, WTFRC claimed that Perreira was just one of their advertisers whom they had no control over, they painted him as a 'rogue' advertiser. Ahahahahahahaa.......

WTFRC had no public webmaster program, they sought out people who could provide major traffic in private deals and bought traffic from other sleazeballs who steal amongst their Australian friends. As you've seen the past few weeks, scum stick up for each other, especially what i call the Australian Porn Mafia. Perreira took the fall for Greg Lazardos, I'm sure he was handsomely paid for it all. My guess is he was employed by WTFRC to hijack search engine listings. Anyways, Lazardos is now smugly showing people newspaper reports of his cooperation with the FTC and his proven innocence in the Perreira case. Bulls---.

The second I heard about FilthyCash i went to do a whois lookup for their domain. FilthyCash.com oddly was registered to somebody in Brooklyn, NY. I noticed an email address for the registrant, webmaster @zulu.org. it rang a bell I had to wait a long time till I figured out who why that name meant something to me. The webmaster at zulu.org is a moron named Mike Fruchtman. That domain was a major password site, Zulu came to the webmaster boards two years ago, either Ynot or Netpond, and began to brashly mock honest paysite webmasters, he and his password site pals mocked everybody, boasted how much money they were making from their illegal activities and that they did business on the sly with many of the major players.

One of those major players he was referring to was obviously Greg Lazardos and WTFRC. I've been waiting to see how Zulu is connected to FilthyCash for the past couple of weeks. You've seen all the thieving webmasters come out from under their rocks lately with their ''I've known Greg for years and he's the most honest decent....blah blah bulls---". Well yesterday on Netpond's board some creton just wanted to thank 'all the wonderful people at FilthyCash including Greg, Melissa, commando, Zulu ' AHA! So not suprisingly it is apparent that the password mogul of yesterday is now a partner in FilthyCash.

Last week I saw Lazardo tell somebody that he had bought the domain name filthycash.com from a New York company as if the NY company had nothing to do with FC. Fruchtman aka Zulu has been the only owner of that domain since its creation. I hope you had gathered enough evidence against these thieves(once a thief always a thief) before they had a chance to start hiding and removing stolen property. I encourage you to take this bunch to the legal limit, they are loaded with money, dirty money. You really should request Netpond and Ynot to do a search of their archives going back 2 or 3 years for Zulu's posts proudly proclaiming his password site triumphs. Also, APIC needs to take more cases to court. There haven't been enough judgements to scare people off.

Hank: Remember though that Greg and WTFRC were absolved in the FTC case. I can only speculate how he set the relationship up with the page jacker and if the page jacker was paid or intimidated into silence where WTFRC was involved. it's obvious to me that WTFRC had full knowledge of this guy's activities and either recruited him to work for them or became the exclusive buyer of his dirty clicks. There's a chance the Australian webmasters will figure out who I am because I've clashed with them publically over FilthyCash's predecessor WTFRC before. I had just gotten fed up with the spam email coming from Australian web companies, most of it ending up at a WTFRC website.

Luke: I've heard from people who are fed up with the spam coming from Australian web companies, most of it supposedly ending up at a WTFRC website. IBILL got itself in Paul Vixie's RBL BlackHole [spam monitor] because they ignored spam complaints for years, according to a source. 100% of the Australian Porn Mafia use IBILL as a cc processor. If you go to Vixie's website and read the case against IBILL the clients listed with spam complaints were predominantly or all Australians. IBILL remember gets 15% of every 39.99 membership, interesting that most of the Australian paysite operators have the same hefty membership fee, that the millions of spammed emails produce.

XXX: Spam works. Scam outfits always gravitate towards IBILL, says a source. The email adresses on the offending websites for customer support and cancels went to email addresses not belonging to the website and in my experience were never answered. Now CCBill or Epoch would never let them get away with the bulls---. I laughed when I found out the woman they hired to run their FilthyCash program turned out to be an IBILL employee. That zulu.org was a large password site is 100% truth. Fruchtman's posts would be remembered by many. Sadly most webmasters only care when a dirty tactic affects them directly.

That zulu.org was a large password site is 100% truth. Fruchtman's posts would be remembered by many. Sadly most webmasters only care when a dirty tactic affects them directly. If you do publish that one of the FilthyCash partners was a big password site operator my guess is Zulu won't deny it and then the usual maggots will come out and heap praise on the thief and minimize his sleazy past.

YYY: IBill always pays on time. They're a good company for getting paid. They're reliable good people. They can't control how their customers spam. All the other credit card processers have had problems getting payments out on time or holding back a huge reserve. That was the problem with Epoch. IBill pays on time. They're upfront and honest. If there's a problem, they let you know about it.

This RBL thing happens to a lot of people, including Joe Elkind with UU.net. You can't control your resellers and the spamming.

Scott Phillips from PinkBits has been known for a long time to be doing similar s---. A lot of people say, watch out for the Australians. They're scammers. They're slimy. They're shifty.

Phillips had a big run-in a couple of years ago with Steve Easton at APIC. Scott became wealthy quick and then became an alcoholic.

Ron Levi aka FM has settled his feud with K-Man. K-Man (Keith Gatehouse) is crazy. You don't want to mess with this guy. He'll come out and ream somebody's ass.

People aside from K-Man won't come out and bash Ron because like him or hate him, he structured the industry we're in right now. How can you bash a guy who created the livelihood a lot of these guys are making from his sites and his technologies.

Webmaster Brad Shaw: Oh yes, I remember ZULU well. He is the one who hacked my server and posted 1000's of passwords a couple years ago. Glad to see that he is doing well these days.

Greg from FilthyCash.com writes on Netpond: Guys I personally don't know Luke F-rd, so do not care to comment. Although all this s--- is getting a little old and lame. have'nt we been through this same stuff before. Lets talk about something that makes us money and not wastes our time. anyone got any constructive money makeing ideas that will help fellow webmaster's rather than try and play games with them. and Brad once again, we have all made mistakes. Why rub s--- in someones face when it is already dry. This seems to be your forte. Anyway netponders take care i have heaps of work to do.

modonnell@nine.com.au writes Steve Easton at APIC (admin@a-w.org): Hello Steve, I'm a producer at the Sunday program, Australia's Nine Network. I'm very interested in any material you may have on the Greg Lasrado business and the WTFRC scam, as well as the other Brisbane net porn entrepreneurs. Any ideas or contacts would be gratefully received. Thanks, Mick O'Donnell

Luke: I heard about a PI doing investigations into Mike Frutcher, for one Aussie porner was supposedly ripped off $18k by a company called fcetelcom.com. The PI has identified Mike Frutcher (lives in Brooklyn, New York) and will be soon tapping him on the shoulder and asking for the $18,000 back.

I hear that an English porner paid Frutcher $18,000 for traffic and never received anything out of it. If Frutcher does not cough up the $18,000, the PI will drop the files off to FBI. They will prosecute him for wire fraud.

XXX: Prophet8 is a key part of the Netpond team and is good friends with the folks at Filthy Cash. He used to work with PinkBits in Australia. Prophet8 took over at Netpond for Kaiser who went to Voice Media (Ron Levi). Eversince then, the Australian tough guys like Greg Lasrado has been posting. Greg used to partner with Scott from Pink Bits.

SShaw10@aol.com writes: My name is Steve and I work for a private investigation company that was retained by a client in England who was allegedly taken for $18,000 by a Mike Frutcher of zulu.org. We were surprised at the text of an article you wrote for Porn News which names "Mike Fruchtman" and zulu. We are trying to locate other individuals who may have been ripped off by Frutcher and I was wondering if you knew of anyone. Please let me know if you know of any others who may have had problems with Frutcher or if you have any other information on him. Thanks for your help!

Russell Gurr writes: Luke Just a short note to, well I guess try and defend Australian's as being 'scammers, slimy and shifty' when it comes to the internet. I can only speak for myself and the two sites that I run WWW.AUSADULTVIDEO.COM.AU & http://www.AUSSIEAMATEURS.COM.AU I do not scam, rip off, spam or otherwise try to piss people off at us in any way, shape or form. I have heard of pink bits and that some of their practice's are not exactly Better Business Bureau handbook examples and the Lazrado connection et al was news to me for the first time (and many other Australian's) last week in The Good Weekend Magazine in last Saturday's Age and Sydney Morning Herald (for US readers thats the = of Sunday's LA Times & NY Times Magazines). Like I said at the start not all of us are 'scammers, slimy and shifty' neither are all Americans 'ugly, loud, rude' etc

Luke: On Wednesday, BobX walked into the Cybererotica office. BobX, along with K-Man, used to be employed by Fantasyman at CE until they parted ways about two years ago. BobX has been married to a Japanese girl for a year and has been working all over the world.

Luke, Roger Pipe On Eyada.com

I and Roger Pipe were on Eyada.com's Lovebytes show Thursday night with Bob Berkowitz. It's archived.

Chaim writes: BB's comment on the importance of sounding professional was dead on. It really counts, and permits all sorts of mopes to have real careers in media, far past the point where their abilities alone would otherwise carry them. Your "radio" set-up sounds about as professional as the home-brew radio station I had going when I was twelve years old. (Of course in those days, there were no transistors, and I had to use Edison Brand Vacuum tubes.)

WHY AREN'T YOU ON RADIO OR TELEVISION? Do you have an agent? Get off your lazy tuchus and do something with your life already so that Marc and I can start mooching off of you! This is NOT a joke, dammit!

Hank: you don't think you can get a once-a-week show on that eyada station discussing morals and ethics related to the entertainment industry? where you can rip on the stories of the day and talk about the callow behavior of celebrities? complete with all of your own hypocritical credentials out in the open? the main criteria for success with that website is a program that'd get them in the papers--and that's a perfect example. i say pitch it to dave herman at eyada TODAY, with last night's performance fresh in your mind and theirs. that's all.

Jechu Prospect writes: My Dear Friend Mr.Luke F-rd!

I am pleased as punch to inform you that our Dear Leader extends his heartfelt invitation to you to visit our country in the near future, with Miss Kendra Jayd. We assume that you choose to accept this generous invitation to teach us all that you know about this form or art, and know that your heart swells with happiness at the thought that soon you shall be among us.

Please let us know what you require to make your stay in Pyongyang fine and it will be provided! Do not worry about any travel expenses for you or your guest, as they will be provided through the generosity of the Korean people!

Rape & Education

MikeSouth.com writes: As for the rape/assault charges against Max it appears that Olivias case may be motivated by get-evenism as much as anything but by God I told you...and it WILL happen again. The FSC can stick their collective heads up their asses and pretend to see nothing if they want.

At another node in cyberspace Gloria Leonard is harping about why people should vote no on proposition 38 (that's the school voucher thing). Glorioski claims she doesn't want her tax dollars going to support schools that teach religious ideology. Obviously Glorioski isn't that knowledgeable as to how the system works, but of course that has never stopped her before. As for Glorioskys position on Prop 38.

I fully support school voucher systems wherever they are in place, it takes control out of the hands of the government and places it into the hands of the citizens and that is simply good. Combine this with the fact that it allows further privatization of the educational system and provides average people with the ability to put their kids into a better educational system and everyone wins when that happens.

Seperation of church and state my ass, it applies equally to all accredited school programs, as it should. I urge CA voters as well as voters in other states to embrace this system before our educational system goes completely down the toilet. This system actually allows her to CHOOSE where her tax dollars are spent.

Interviewing Kendra Jade

JohnnyTemptation: Hey Hows everything is Kelly there let me talk to her
JohnnyTemptation: WaZZZZZZZZZZZuP
KendraJXXX: leave me alone
JohnnyTemptation: why do you put your name out like that if you don't want people to talk to you , your a famous star I mean your names right in your profile
JohnnyTemptation: or is this really not you
KendraJXXX: its there for BUSINESS reasons , not to "chat"
JohnnyTemptation: oh do you hate your fans do you think we're losers?
KendraJXXX: not at all, but its rude to interruipt someone constantly nomatter who they are
JohnnyTemptation: oh i get it it i didn't want to bother you but i am interested in you and it seems the only way you talk to me is if i annoy you or say something stupid
KendraJXXX: try email..i always respond to that when i have time, but interrupting is rude unless you know someone JohnnyTemptation: ok btw i'm only 18 and i watch you on howard stern and think your very pretty
JohnnyTemptation: sorry i pissed you off

Puck Grainy: Hows Kelly doing.
KendraJXXX: who is this
Puck Grainy: Mike
KendraJXXX: mike who? she doesnt know a mike.so please email her and not me
Puck Grainy: she knows me
Puck Grainy: ask her
KendraJXXX: i just did and she dont know you.now leave me alone you are i nterrupting my business
Puck Grainy: Big Fan Kendra just trying to talk to you cause i like you
Puck Grainy: sorry
Puck Grainy: are you going to the bunny ranch again cause i'm very interested
Puck Grainy: put kelly on for a sec i gotta ask her somtin
KendraJXXX: no im busy.
Puck Grainy: will you put me on your buddy list
Puck Grainy: i'm a nice guy
Puck Grainy: Hey I'm very close to chicago right now whens your next show is kelly involved
Puck Grainy: Can i have Kellys email?

Goddess writes: Is it my imagination, Luke, or do you have a decided *lack of support* from your female friends in regards to your budding relationship with PJG? Sour grapes? Telling you it would probably only last three months....damn! with friends like that you don't need Fleets, baby.