NL- Forgot to run this thru spell check sorry Tim, fixed)
Quite an interesting little meeting. In my opinion, the most important part of the discussion was about the gay vs. straight industry. There was the usual rhetoric about testing vs. condoms. I mentioned the gay company that recently signed an HIV+ performer to an exclusive contract. It would seem to me that advertising the fact that you’re hiring HIV+ performers just begs for regulation, and mandatory condoms. There was a short discussion of employer vs. contractors.
An OSHA representative let it be known in no uncertain terms that performers are employees. I was most impressed with Mr. Marcus. I have met and spoken with Marcus a few times in the past. He spoke ‘to’ the people who were there, not ‘at’ them. This is one guy that performers need to listen to. There were a number of UCLA law students there. I think some of them were taken by surprise seeing how easily terms like double anal and facial ejaculation were used as if we were discussing last nights Laker game.
There was one guy there, I didn’t catch his name, who said he was a performer for a short time. Other than him Mr. Marcus, Dianne Duke, and Mark Kernes, nobody else from the industry showed up. Dianne Duke again stated that the industry and the FSC believe that the current testing system works and no further regulations are needed. Some of the students, who have never looked into this industry before, seemed to brush this off as pretty unbelievable.
There needs to be more forums like this. It was quite informal, and was more of a discussion than a debate. The saddest part was the lack of performers standing up for themselves. No producers showed up either.(Marcus is also a producer, but he spoke mainly from the performers perspective.) AHF and Shelley did their regular things. Not much new there, but interesting anyway. Informative and interesting, but nothing really new. Maybe next time. I will be more than happy to answer any question the best I can. Tim Tritch tritchtm@ca.rr.com
Thats is a great article and that shows Tim how much voice and strength that isn’t in the industry anymore. We have still producers having performers show up with evidence of test and sometimes no Id’s .Marcus has been around for years and for years more. Looks like the state will get there way here evidentely and enforcement will happen because people in Liberal ass california are very weak and have really no say so and the legislature is a bunch of pussy cocksuckers any way. all well start practcing using a rubber guys. have plently of Fluffers around too!
Thank you for your comments RickMadrid. I spent alot of time at AIM. Have we ever met? I know most performers by their real names.
Personally, I don’t think OSHA is going to do anything. They will have their hearings, and maybe revise the statutes with specific wording directed at the adult film industry. And then the same NON ENFORCEMENT of those regulations will follow. OR, at the end of all the hearings, OSHA wil just say that the current standards are enough, and then again, continue with their non enforcement.
That is why I am advocating for the industry to improve its own system. There needs to be more than just performers paying for monthly tests. It can be done, and the indusry does not need permission from anyone to do it.
Rick,I think we all know that there will always be cheaters in this voluntary program. That is why the program needs to be improved. Identifying the cheaters who put others at risk, and refusing to work with them is a start.
Thanks for your comments, they are welcomed.
Be safe, get tested!
The unknown male talent was me Markus Destin and in case you were wondering they were using skewed statistics when speaking about HIV among homosexual men and transmission rates. When I posed the argument on the issue of gay-4-pay male performers.The one guy was just a patsy using false figures to disuade the audience from the fact that homosexual sex has an astronomicaly higher rate of HIV transmission and viral load compared to b/g vaginal due to the nature of tissues permiability. What you should have been doing was listening to me then as well as three months licensed and bonded agencies included when dealing with this issue. It is because of your lack and attention to detail that angers me …..anyone from inside the buisness will tell you ocmodeling “the contamination point” included that I was warning everyone about representing male talent that poses liabilities via cross contamination ie gay-4-pay and no one listend until patient zero contracted so keep this article up I will dictate to you via the web…..even Mr.Marcus agreed with my logic on risk managing male talent and relegating the gay-4-payers and male crossovers to the gay side of the industry thus limiting cross contamination. Even the AVN writer agreed with with startiling statistics that 30-50 percent of gay side performers are already carriers to the chagrin of the guy who was throwing up skewed statistics so my suggestion to you writer is you need to pay more attention to the people and players who knew what went on and were trying to risk manage the situation before it even shut down the adult industry for a month…….
Markus,
Sorry if this article here was a little lacking. YOU were right on point with everything you said.
The issue of crossover talent has been around for years, and I completely agree with your assesment of the situation. It needs to stop.
I thought I made that pretty clear.At the meeting I said, and I will paraphrase here,’in the real world HIV crosses all boundries,but in the porn industry the threat of HIV is much greater on the gay side of the industry. I also boughtup the gay company that recently signed a known HIV+ performer to an exclusive contract.
And talk about skewed stats Markus, maybe you arent aware of this but I am the guy who used to do all the testing for AIM. It was my job. And I fully agree with you, I have no idea where some of these stats come from.
Glad to have you aboard Markus. More performers like you need to speak up. My email is included on this site Markus, contact me anytime.
In the end, YOU are your own last line of defense.
Be safe, get tested, and respect those that you interact with.
Your comments are welcomed Markus, thank you.
PS> Markus, that was me who bought up the 30 to 50% HIV rate in the gay industry. And that is a conservative estimate.
Shure thing sir just trying to look out for everyone best interest regardless of propaganda and subjectivity…..best regards
Also to view the real statistics behind the virus known as HIV and its transmissiom go to the Center for Disease Control and they have a plethora of valuable indepth research thats objective and down to the facts regardless of gender association…..
xoxoxxo Markus Americas First Legal Gigolo
that was me who bought up the 30 to 50% HIV rate in the gay industry. And that is a conservative estimate.
YOU ARE SHITTING ME?
30-50% OF GAY PERFORMERS CARRY HIV?
You are correct and get this there are rumors floating around that some anti-virals and european meds can actually limit the presence of the virus to a point where even a carrier can somehow bypass the poly-diribose-neuclaic/Di-ribose neuclaic acid PCR/DNA test when done properly and taken in the right schedule on testing days like doping in the olympics we have anti-virals in porn not for shure if this is 100 percent true but still interesting concept I stumbled upon
Yep! Tim I have been there when your there! Any is that true? they are hiring HIV+ performers now in the GAY side?? here we go again!!!
The gay side of the business must adopt the same testing standards as the straight side, it should’ve anyway many years ago, for the health and welfare of the performers, end of story.
I agree with your post Larry, but others might put a little different spin on it.
The straight side of the industry must adopt the same condom standards as the gay side. It should’ve anyway many years ago for the health and welfare of the performers. End of story.
RickMardrid,instead of ‘here we go again,’ it might as well be ‘here we go still.’ And that gay company put out a press release a few weeks ago about sigining the HIV+ performer to a contract.
Protect yourself and you protect those around you.
http://business.avn.com/articles/Survey-HIV-Status-Rarely-Discussed-on-Gay-Porn-Sets-24230.html
Sirecumalot, this article gives a 30% estimate. A quick google search can find you others that estimate as high as 60 to 70%, but I think thats a little up there. I would never **** you on something this important. Staggering, isnt it. Kind of makes that mandatory condom thing a little easier to think about, especeially with all the crossover talent out there. Sounds to me like a pretty serious issue that needs to be talked about.
Thanks for your comments.
Again study the transmission of the viral load in anal sex compared to vaginal just because homosexuals are naturally at higher risk for virus transfer doesnt give them the right to push the condom agenda onto the heteros side its the greedy bi-sexual males who stand in the middle doing both gay and straight collecting 4 times the income. These unethical people gave the gay/lesbian community justification and credence in forcing their standards onto relatively safe and clean Hetero/straight performers who have towed the straight only policy all along. Not to mention casting directors werent even doing their research and hiring said performers oblivious to the fact of cross contamination. The elephant was in the room it was just no one had the common sense to look up…….
Again study the transmission of the viral load in anal sex compared to vaginal just because homosexuals are naturally at higher risk for virus transfer doesnt give them the right to push the condom agenda onto the heteros side its the greedy bi-sexual males who stand in the middle doing both gay and straight collecting 4 times the income. These unethical people gave the gay/lesbian community justification and credence in forcing their standards onto relatively safe and clean Hetero/straight performers who have towed the straight only policy all along. Not to mention casting directors werent even doing their research and hiring said performers oblivious to the fact of cross contamination. The elephant was in the room it was just no one had the common sense to look up…….
Good Saturday morning Tim and thanks for the heads up! yes I do that and will even walk off a set if there is NO AIM and or TTS testing and 2 id’s from the female perfomers. I had a situation the other day and the directors would’nt provide to the 2 required documents. So No AIM test and No Wood. ill walk off. California seems to be the only state where the violations and infection rate is here even though I have performed in other states where porn is shot and performed. Bahumute yes you it the above on the nail! you have a alot of casting personal who are also fond of the gay and bi sexual guys like that one male performer Underwood who did trannys and chicks and that was all over the AVN in 2008.Ok got to get going and enjoy the wet and nasty weekend. Be safe you all and enjoy this season what left.Peace out!!
I am horrified to read you report that “The saddest part was the lack of performers standing up for themselves. No producers showed up either.”
The organizers of the panel ACTIVELY PLOTTED to keep adult industry members away, and I can attest that it is true. This event was not promoted at all. I stumbled upon a reference to it in the calendar on Lubben’s site two days before the event. She listed the name of the event, the location, and gave the start time as 11:00 am. I passed the info on to Free Speech Coalition, and Diane Duke essentially “bullied” her way onto the panel. FSC also alerted AVN.
The original panel line-up had included only adult performer Mr. Marcus, opposed by Lubben, Dr. Peter Kerndt (from LA County Dept of Public Health), and Whitney Engeran-Cordova (from AHF). That’s a three-to-one ratio. After Diane Duke was added to the bill, suddenly the incredibly rude and small-minded Dr. Paula Tavrow was added to make it four-to-two. They had planned to bushwhack Mr. Marcus, plain and simple. I also find it interesting that the performer they invited to address an audience about 90% of which was young (college-age) women, was a physically intimidating black performer who had never participated in ANY of the prior discussions and events regarding OSHA, or AHF.
FSC’s Diane Duke deserves a lot of praise for stepping up and doing such an excellent job against a coordinated, unified front. The other anti-porn interests (including the insane Mrs. Lubben) even had coordinated powerpoint slideshow presentations. They presented a unified front.
Shelley Lubben must have been told to not promote the event, because after FSC (and AVN) called over to the organizers, citing Shelley’s website as how they heard about it, the start time on Shelley’s site was mysteriously ALTERED to 2:00 pm (which is 50 minutes after he event had to end so that a scheduled class could use the room). That altered start time is still on her website as I write this. I must conclude they called her to complain, and Shelley’s instinct, as usual, was to distort the truth. She takes a kernel of truth, and then twists it to serve her needs.
This panel was plotted as a way for a cabal of likeminded interests to add another all-star meeting to their roster, try out their propaganda on a small test audience, and hopefully get a few quotes to use for self promotion. That I helped out them, and take the fight to them, is a badge of honor for me. But the real praise belongs to Mr. Marcus and Diane Duke, who knowingly walked into a turkey shoot.
You also write “An OSHA representative let it be known in no uncertain terms that performers are employees.” That is not what happened at all. Two OSHA representatives, who “just happened to be in the audience” stated that their policy is to construe as many workplace environments as employer-employee relationships as possible. They choose to construe these relationships as broadly as possible because regulatory agencies always seek opportunities to regulate things. It’s their essential nature. It justifies their existence, and their paychecks. Naturally, AHF (which filed the complaints with OSHA in the first place) agreed with this assertion by OSHA; it’s in their interest to do so, as I pointed out at the meeting (or attempted to).
UCLA’s Paula Tavrow also made the assertion that testing is only surveillance, not protection, completely ignoring the fact that AIM Healthcare’s testing has saved countless lives by preventing aspiring performers with HIV from entering the talent pool by screening them out via heir initial test. Tavrow, a very bitter woman, also cited approvingly Lubben’s rants — seconding Lubben’s lie that she can be absolutely certain that she contracted herpes and HPV from her two-dozen or so porn scenes and NOT from her eight years as a drug-abusing prostitute who was impregnated by clients three times (and who admits that clients deliberately broke condoms with her, and that one bled in her cace from his penis). To accept that track record as safe, “protected sex” is simply disgusting and utterly corrupt.
I’m also sorry to hear you tout the AHF party line, that condoms are the necessary answer for the straight side of the business. “Volenti non fit injuria” is a common sense legal concept dating back to ancient times: to the willing there is no injury. It means voluntary assumption of risk.
Performers take a calculated risk. I’ll quote Nina Hartley (interviewed in The Humanist): “If we’re to grant autonomy to people over the age of eighteen, then that means accepting their choices as valid, even if we’d never do such a thing. This includes being able to join the army and get shot or maimed, or become a miner or construction worker. Those are deadly jobs (no one has died from making porn in the thirty-seven years it’s been legal) and no one thinks to tell a young adult, ‘Don’t do that job, it’s dangerous.’ Or if we do tell them, we accept that, being young people, they may disregard our advice…. But the world can’t be made a child-safe day nursery.”
No one knows for sure what percentage of gay performers have HIV. There is no statistical evidence, only anecdotal evidence. This is the kind of “proof” that Shelley Lubben uses when she claims that there have been “111 AIDS deaths” in the adult industry. That number is derived from the number of deaths among men who also appeared in gay porn. As you well know, straight porn tests performers BEFORE they’re allowed to enter the talent pool, and monthly thereafter, while the gay side does not require any testing. No testing = no stats.
Since there’s no system in place from keeping HIV+ men out of gay porn, there’s no way to track when or where the gay performers became infected – outside the industry or in it. There are NO stats. If people with HIV or AIDS appear in some gay porn movies before they die, that doesn’t mean porn killed them. There are several adult performers who died of cancer. That’s like saying porn causes cancer.
Is there a substantial percentage of gay talent who are HIV+? Yes. But we don’t know how much. The numbers given above are speculative. We also don’t know how effective condoms may or may not be in the gay porn paradigm because, again, there is no testing.
I think Marcus represented himself and the industry quite well. I find your accusation that Mr. Marcus was chosen for the reasons you stated offensive.
I have written before, I do not think non-condom porn is going away. OSHA can do what they want, the industry will continue to make non condom porn.
I am calling for the industry to improve its current system. I know how well AIM already works. When you praise AIM for its accomplishments I take pride in that. I was part of that success. As I have written before, my experience with AIM was the most rewarding part of my twenty plus years in the Laboratory industry. The AIM system works exactly as it is supposed to. For years it was a huge part of my job to make sure it did just that.
Performers will continue to make the choiice to not use condoms. The system that deals with what comes after needs to be improved. There are very real consequences for these choices.
Screening out HIV+ performers before they enter the industry is one of the main reasons AIM exists. Every time I reported an HIV+ to AIM it was a bitter sweet thing. On one hand I was telling someone that they are HIV positive, but on the other hand I knew that I had may have just prevented a young girl from getting infected. To me, that is the only thing that matters. I could care less about the politics.
There is no way to prove how many infections may have been prevented. That’s a number I don’t care to think about. But I do know that the performers themselves have prevented more HIV transmissions by being part of the AIM system than County Health,FSC and AFH combined. And performers can make the sysem even better.
Nobody dies doing porn, but in how many other jobs do people get STDs and HIV?
As far as the gay industry is concerned, I think if AHF was really serious they would make their appeals for mandatory condoms based on the high number of HIV+ gay perfomrers. If the gay industry is going to put out press releases about hiring HIV+ performers I think that is an invitaion for regulation.
Michael, I also agree with you on the no testing=no stats. I was waiving my hand during the meeting to bring that up during Dr. Kerndts presentation. He had his power point presentation, and I wanted to ask “Where are the gay industry stats” just to see what his answer would be.
I will go you one step further Michael, no testing=no stats=no regulation. By that I mean you dont see the county going after the gay indsutry because they have nothing to go at them with. I think one interesting part of this entire debate is that the County cites all of their porn industry stats based soley on information they get from AIM, then they turn around and point the finger at AIM.
Thanks for your comments Michael,
If more dialogue can open the door to improving the system I am all for it. Be safe, get tested.
I stand by my comment re: Mr. Marcus. He absolutely DID do a marvelous job, I like and respect him and I think he would be an excellent candidate to speak on behalf of the industry, at any time. However, strictly in light of the other things to be gleaned from this attempted bushwhacking, including the coordinated efforts of the anti-porn parties, I wonder aloud if the organizers of this panel — having never seen Marcus address these issues — chose him for reasons in keeping with their goal of winning the argument through misdirection. That is the whole of my position vis-a-vis Marcus.
You maintain, “OSHA can do what they want, the industry will continue to make non condom porn.” Perhaps, but when you say “the industry” who do you mean? Who will remain in California, shooting under the restrictions contemplated? It is my belief that, just like many other businesses have done before, adult movie companies will move production out of state or out of the country, to locations where regulations are not as onerous (and where there is not a self-regulated talent pool tested as rigorously as the California talent pool that AIM manages). Or, productions will move underground. This is basic economics. In that case, people will be LESS safe, not more, and this entire exercise will have been in vain.
You write, “Nobody dies doing porn, but in how many other jobs do people get STDs and HIV?” That is also misdirection. I would posit that the two issues at hand are workplace safety and freedom/personal responsibility. Dead is dead. In the eyes of the law, injured is injured. The severity of the injury dictates the amount of recovery, but the principle remains the same. Either a harm has been done or it hasn’t.
More people are injured on mainstream sets in a week than are on porn sets in ten years or more. The crux of this mater is choice and assumption of risk. More boxers have died in the ring than porn stars have died on set. More soldiers die in a day in our foreign wars than have died as a direct result of them having sex in a movie in the entire history of modern pornography.
I, too, wish you would have had the opportunity to ask Dr. Kerndt where the gay industry stats are, although we both know the answer: they don’t exist. But I’m curious what his response would have been. Based upon the things that Ms. Tavrow said, anything is possible.
You may also be right when you claim “no testing=no stats=no regulation,” however, from my chat with Mr. Engeran-Cordova following the panel, it is quite clear that the goal of these entities is to institute and enforce, if they can, BOTH testing and condoms-only regimes on both sides of the industry. Mr. Engeran-Cordova made it clear to me, however, that AHF would settle for condoms-only, since they drink the KoolAid that decrees condoms to be reliable prevention and testing to be merely surveillance. It he had his druthers, if you please, he’d push for both testing and condoms.
I too want to improve the system, but I emphatically resist the notion that this can be accomplished by making the world a child-safe day nursery.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond, and I commend you for your comments regarding your time with AIM Healthcare, where I was tested many times.
Cordially,
MW
Bahamute, Bravo on this:
the greedy bi-sexual males who stand in the middle doing both gay and straight collecting 4 times the income. These unethical people gave the gay/lesbian community justification and credence in forcing their standards onto relatively safe and clean Hetero/straight performers who have towed the straight only policy all along. Not to mention casting directors werent even doing their research and hiring said performers oblivious to the fact of cross contamination. The elephant was in the room it was just no one had the common sense to look up…….
While the Trannyfucker may disagree, he fits greedy and add hypocritical attitude of the crossovers worse than anyone, if you oppose HIS crossover work you are a homophobe, and from his attitude on work he is a greedy asshole. I would call Seth Dickens greedy but I have no idea what the guy does with his money other than his valueless online education.
Thank you for brining up boxers Michael. Did you know that boxers, through the State Athletic commision, are required by law to have and HIV test done before they are granted a
license to box? And every single day in the adult industry someone catches an std, and this I know firsthand to be a fact. And i am not just talking about herpes.
At the OSHA hearing last June, Deborah Gold said,”Condoms are ALREADY required for sex scenes, and any production that does not use them is breaking the law.” That sounds pretty clear to me. And I havent’t seen a company leave California or go underground since then. And since then OSHA has not issued any new citations. I just dont’t see any more enforcement from OSHA.
At another hearing David Mech(aka Dave Pounder) made an interesting point. There will always be a market for the american girl. And youre not going to get american girls in ay ohter country. And if the industry thinks they’re going to antoher state, the AHF will be right behind them, and the local county health departments will have to be dealt with.
OSHA does not have the authority to make pre employment testing part of their regulations. That would take an act of legislation, and that is not coming any time soon. Boxers and MMA fighters have to comply with the rules of the State Athletic Commision, which require testing for HIV. I also find it interesting that a boxer is required by law to have an HIV test, but a porn performer having unprotected sex is not. Do you think the industry would support legislation to make testing mandatory, not voluntary as it is now?
Michael, I have a few other articles on this site, and a few more that haven’t been printed yet. I would like to hear your opinion on them.
Thanks for your comments.
Tim, I would be honored to offer my opinion on anything that you write on this topic, or any related ones. I’m assuming you have my email from my login info, but if you don’t I’ll gladly send it to you. Send me the links, and I’ll gladly take a look.
Yes, I did know that boxers are required to be tested for HIV, although I’ve never considered the particulars. It makes sense that it would be done through the auspices of the State Athletic Commissions.
Members of any highly sexually active population catch STDs every day. Look at the CDC numbers. I’m not saying there aren’t a substantial amount of STD transmissions in adult productions, but I remain unconvinced of the accuracy of the analysis of AIM’s numbers by LA County, for a host of reasons.
Yes, I would expect OSHA’s Deborah Gold, given the thankless, hopeless job of making sense of and justifying the piss-poor job that OSHA did in promulgating the awful set of regulations now on the books pertaining to adult productions, would make a statement like that. That does not mean that the regs are any good, or industry-appropriate, or enforceable, or likely to be enforced.
I have nothing against Dave Pounder, but I think that neither he, nor his philosophy, carry much weight in adult industry circles. You also seem to overlook the fact that porn used to be underground, and it can be again — with plenty of sexy American girls available and anxious to live the outlaw lifestyle, just like they did in the 1970s and ’80s. Many believe that porn would be better that way. There’s something to the argument that the peculiar urge to “go mainstream” wrought a lot of this mess in the first place.
Just because AHF would follow adult producers to other states doesn’t mean they’d win. I’m unconvinced of their omnipotence. Messrs Weinstein and Engeran-Cordova positively wreak of the “Too Big To Fail” mindset. As Shelley Lubben would say (or at least she would if she actually were a Christian-minded person and not a life-long con-artist) pride goeth before a fall.
I am personally not opposed to mandatory HIV testing for porn performers, but I do not speak for them. I do believe that if the choice were no porn jobs or state-ordered testing, the industry would opt for mandatory testing, and I include gay porn in that estimation.
Also, since you say you took personal offense at my Mr. Marcus statement, above, I feel compelled to ask: did you play any part in getting him on that panel?
Cordially,
MW
I had no role of any kind regarding this event. After I recieved an email with the flyer I immedieatly sent it to Cindi. I am thankful that she posted it.
I agree that the lack of enforcement for over years now has led us to where we are now. And I dont see any changes in the level of enforcement from OSHA.
And here is something we completely agree on. The accuracy of the County’s analysis of AIMS numbers. Being the person who personaly handled every single AIM result for years, I too am more than puzzled by some of their stats.
The County Health Dept. and OSHA have been fully aware of the adult industry’s existence in California for decades now, but they have been turning a blind eye to it. It is my opinion that it has been because of the recent pressure from AHF that they are now taking these actions.
Michael, I spent years dealing directly with performers every day. As I have stated before, I dont know most stage names, I know most performers by their real names. When you spend hundres of hours talking to performers in the setting of AIM Healthcare you get a much more honest interaction. Of course I will never violate any privacy regarding converstions, but I can make general statements based on what I have learned from those private conversations. That is one reason that I will never agree with the FSC when they say that ‘performers do not want to use condoms.’ My personal experience has led me to believe this is not true.
The County says there are XXXXXX number of positive stds from AIM. But if you break that down to civilians, performers testing for the first time, veteran performers, etc. the stats change dramaticaly. ALot of the civilians who come to AIM are there becuase they have not been tested for a long time, and/or are concerned about a particular encounter they had recently. A large percentage of the civilians at AIM come up positive. Most new performers are generally people who have been having alot of sex recently. A good number of ‘newbies’ also test positive. I agree that the stats can be twisted any way you want to make them fit an agenda.
As I said, I do not think non-condom porn is going away. Its dealing with the ramifications of this that I am concerned about.
My other articles are right on this site, just scroll back a few pages.
I think we probably agree on alot more that we disagree on. No solutions are perfect, I am looking for workable compromises, which means a little give and take from everybody.
Thanks again Michael, I’m looking forward to hearing your opinions.
(Michael, after rereading my first respose to you I can plainly see how you might have thought that I had some part in putting this panel together. I will choose my words more carerully in the future.)
I would like to pose one question to you Michael. In your last post you wrote “the awful set of regulaions now on the books pertaining to adult productions”
Were you referring to anything in particular, or just the using the medical standards and trying to apply them to the adult industry?
I also think we probably agree on more things than not. You are correct, of course, that no solution is perfect.
To answer your second question first, I’d have to go through the regs (of which I possess a copy) line by line to answer fully, but generally speaking, yes, the essential problem with them is that they are applicable to medical clinics and not porn sets. They were clearly not written by someone who has any experience with how porn sets actually operate. Beyond that, I’d have to go line by line.
As for the interpretation of the regs, and re: application and enforcement, I take issue with OSHA’s apparent “zero-risk” standard vis-a-vis porn shoots, and also the apparent construction that all infections must have happened at work.
As for OSHA’s recent attention, of course it is driven by AHF — AHF filed the complaint, after all. I’ve already written at length about my view of AHF’s motives.
I’ve been around this industry since 1993. I’ve had many relationships with women in the industry, some of my closest friends in the world are or were in the industry, I’ve cast many girls from the industry in my projects (since 2004), for eight years I interviewed adult stars for internationally syndicated new stories (and also did on-set reports), I attended nearly every industry event from 1996 to 2006 (and more since I moved back to LA), and I was a distributor (to TV and hotels) of adult content for 7 1/2 years. I represented many, many producers of x-rated content. I made money off of performers having sex on camera, and as an act of conscience, I began getting tested at AIM years ago. Not monthly on the dot, since I wasn’t performing, but regularly (before I moved out of LA). I supported the goals of AIM, and I wanted to keep the performing population safe. Like you, I have discussed — and continue to discuss — health, safety and economic issues with many, many performers, male and female, as well as with the producers who hire them, many directors, and other production personnel. I’ve been on more than a hundred XXX sets — and that’s a conservative estimate. I rarely stayed ALL DAY, but I’ve done that too.
The issue of whether performers would prefer condoms or not depends on how you ask the question. If you ask them: “Would you like to earn the same money for less risk?” I’m certain that most would choose to answer in the affirmative. Who wouldn’t? — it’s common sense. But, if you were to say, “How about wearing a condom and getting paid less, because we can ship fewer units of condom porn?” or “We can pay you the same but you’ll work even less than you now do,” the answer might well be quite different.
I’d be happy to scroll through some of your other pieces, and make comments should I have anything “pithy” to add. 🙂
MW
On other thing, Tim —
You misstate the position of the FSC. You write, above, “the industry and the FSC believe that the current testing system works and no further regulations are needed” and “I will never agree with the FSC when they say that ‘performers do not want to use condoms.’”
While FSC does believe the current system works, they do not proclaim it to be perfect. The only person proposing a model she believes to be perfect is the religious fanatic and con artist Shelley Lubben, who wants to end all pornography because GOD told her it is her mission.
FSC also does not not say that the regulations in place should not be changed. Quite the opposite. FSC is fighting for industry-appropriate regulations. FSC is working with OSHA to accomplish that. No, FSC did not lodge the complaints with OSHA that set this circus in motion (AHF did) — that would have been a radical move for an industry organization — but it does not take the position that the regulations do not need amendment or revision.
Further, it is not the official position of the FSC that performers categorically do not want to use condoms. The position of the FSC, as I understand it (and I do not speak for FSC), is that state-ordered MANDATORY condoms are a very bad idea for the industry, in light of the factors we’ve enumerated and discussed above. The FSC also objects to the notion (as do I) that testing is ONLY SURVEILLANCE, as Paula Tavrow put it. This is nonsense, for the reasons we both discussed above — mainly, because testing prevents the infected from entering the talent pool in the first place. Talk about barrier protection!
Thank you Michael.
Yours is the type of opinion I was hoping to I was hoping to get here.
For some reason I cant find your email here.
Mine is tritchtm@ca.rr.com
I would like to get together and have a real discussion with you off this board.
And perhaps I misspoke somewhere, of course it was AHF who filed complaints, not FCS.
Thanks again.
I’m pleased to be a part of this discussion.
You didn’t claim it was FSC who initiated the complaints, but you wrote: “It is my opinion that it has been because of the recent pressure from AHF that they are now taking these actions.” My response is, yes, obviously, since AHF filed the complaints, AHF ‘s pressure is indeed the reason Cal/OSHA is taking these actions.
I’ll email you with my contact info. The Thanksgiving holiday, my shooting/editing schedule, and my travel plans complicate matters, but I’m interested in discussing these issues with you.
MW
Thank you Michael. Should be some interseting discussions. Looking forward to it.
Nothing is black and white. We just need to find the shades of gray that we can work with. Its about workable compromises.
With all due respect, let’s make very clear who the “we” is in that sentence. By “we” do you mean the adult industry generally, or do you mean all participants in this debate when you say “we?”
Either one is okay with me, but I don’t want anyone to think I claim to represent any of the parties here. That “we” does not include me. I have opinions, and they are my own. My views are not in slavish lock-step with any of the parties in this debate, although my statement above should make it very clear that I do not . As I understand it, you don’t represent any of the interested entities either, although you’ve had business and other associations with several of them.
As for finding the shades of gray, I agree in part, and I disagree in part. Sure, the world is full of varying shades of gray, but the content of one’s convictions and character determine where one draws the line. Once the line is drawn, everything on one side of it is black, and all on the other side is white. Life’s great question is “Where do you stand?” You’ll never find a book in the library called, “Great Moderates in American History.” Compromise is one thing, principle is another. Freedom requires guardians, and guardians may give or take, but they do not bend their knee in fealty to notions of “sensitivity” or “political correctness” or even politics. The adult film industry, a legal industry which gives jobs to thousands, and which generates millions of dollars in taxes and fees, must refuse to be bullied.
@Michael,
I do not include AHF, County Health,or any other organization when I say “we.”
I am looking to help the industry find ways to improve their own system. The best part of the current AIM system is that is completely voluntary.
And the level of compliance with this voluntary system is very good. Most of the industry is so compliant that the voluntary system is almost mandatory, and I think that is a good thing.
Send me your email Michael.
tritchtm@ca.rr.com
I just emailed you.
And, for the record, I didn’t inquire who “we” was in that sentence to question your loyalties — I asked because I disagree strongly that it is incumbent upon “we,” the adult industry, to make any compromises.
This is a war — the adult industry is beset on all sides — and wars end in only victory and defeat. Victory is not achieved through compromise. Look at history. Wars do not end through accords and treaties. Wars end when one side declares total victory, and the other side offers unconditional surrender. That is the goal; that must be the goal. For, if you give these forces a foothold, they will return to work it another day and extract more compromises. It’s like a blackmailer — if you pay once, you never stop paying.
Everyone related to this struggle must pick a side. As Shelley Lubben might say, “You can’t serve two masters.” You’ve got to love one and hate the other. To think otherwise is to fool yourself.